Government Operations Committee on Dec. 12th, 2024

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Let's get back to what the procurement ombudsman said. Do you agree with the procurement ombudsman when he talks about the procurement system being broken?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I can turn to an official, but I would be surprised if the procurement ombudsman had said, like you did, that everything is broken in Canada.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

He said—and I quoted it for you, sir—that “the Canadian system is kind of near the bottom tier”, and he said that the contract system is “broken”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I have to interrupt. That is our time.

We'll go to Mr. Kusmierczyk. Perhaps you can address it during that time period.

Go ahead, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you so much, Minister Duclos, for being here with us once again at the OGGO committee. It's always excellent talking to you, and it's always wonderful to get your insights.

I want to talk about a very important program in my community, which is the Canadian dental care plan. There are 15,000 people in Windsor-Essex who have received dental care because of our Canadian dental care plan. A large proportion of them are seniors. It is incredibly important. I got a chance to speak with our seniors advisory council just this week, and they emphasized how important the dental care plan was and is for our community.

The Conservatives keep opposing the Canadian dental care plan and, when they're not opposing it, they're denying that it even exists. To quote the Leader of the Opposition, he said that not a single tooth has been cleaned. Again, 15,000 residents in Windsor-Essex would vehemently disagree with his assessment, if you can call it that.

I want to ask you if you can provide an update on the rollout of the Canadian dental care plan, which has helped literally 15,000 residents and seniors in my community already. Can you provide us with a bit of an update on this program?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Irek.

This is, indeed, an example of procurement that is making a huge difference in the lives of millions of Canadians. Now we have three million Canadians registered for the Canadian dental care plan.

It is indeed worrying, and in fact upsetting, to hear the Conservative leader, Pierre Poilievre, pretend that this does not exist, and it discourages more seniors from registering into that program.

In the Conservative riding of MP Genuis, we now have almost 5,000 people who have registered, and his leader says that it doesn't exist. Imagine that: It doesn't exist. There are almost 5,000 in MP Block's riding, too.

Now, we obviously want to keep promoting that. You have 15,000 in your own riding here, Irek, because of the advocacy that you are doing and the sharing of information, the encouragement and not misleading seniors into not registering for the Canadian dental care plan. It makes a huge difference, and I would encourage you to keep doing your great work.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

What in the world does this have to do with the estimates for procurement?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We always allow a very wide breadth for discussion.

Continue, Minister.

Thank you.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

The potted plant is on its way, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Continue, Minister.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Yes, thank you.

MP Kusie has almost 4,000 in her riding, yet her leader, Pierre Poilievre, says it doesn't exist. That's very bad. It's funny, perhaps, but it's very bad, because it discourages more seniors in those ridings from registering. There are, indeed, some issues within Conservative ridings with people not knowing enough about the Canadian dental care plan, but overall, it's great news that 93% of providers—dentists, hygienists and denturists—have registered.

I would point out that the NDP has played a key role in that. Without the NDP's support, this would not have happened, because the Conservatives and the Bloc did everything they could, including in the estimates that we voted just this week, to stop this program from going on.

The question is about why it matters now. In the estimates process, there are important investments to support the development of that important dental care plan.

Thank you, Irek, for all that you do.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you very much, Minister.

On that point, I notice that my colleague Mr. Genuis is very eager to join this conversation. I hope, Minister, that you get a chance to ask him personally whether, as the MP for his riding, he supports the Canadian dental care plan, which has provided such a benefit to thousands of residents in his riding. I'd love for you to ask him that question today if you do get a chance.

I want to move on to another subject, which is national defence. It is absolutely critical to Canada.

Minister, last month I got a chance to tour the HMCS Harry DeWolf, which is the first Arctic and offshore patrol ship—an AOPS. It was docked in Windsor-Essex. We had the entire community come out to tour this incredible ship. I got a chance to meet with Commander Jon Nicholson and his crew. They are absolutely amazing. They talked about how these investments in the AOPS, those patrol ships, are helping us to defend our Arctic sovereignty and strengthen defence.

Can you talk about the progress on the remaining vessels in this class and name any notable achievements or challenges that were encountered in the construction? It was a magnificent ship with an incredible crew. I wanted to ask for an update on that, please.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Irek.

I'll turn soon to Simon, the deputy minister, who will provide details.

At a very high level, the national shipbuilding strategy is leading to the creation or sustainment of about 20,000 jobs every year. It's also leading to significant successes on the international stage. We know how important it is, in 2024, to be able to fight for the interests of Canadians here in Canada and their security outside of Canada.

We are doing this, obviously, with the support and collaboration of the United States. We have just signed, a couple of weeks ago, an ICE pact, an icebreaker collaboration effort pact, with the governments of Finland and the United States. This is remarkable. This is going to build on the important progress that we've made in the last years on the national shipbuilding strategy, including building these AOPS and other icebreaking ships.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I have to interrupt. That is our time.

We'll now go to Mrs. Vignola.

The floor is yours for six minutes, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank Mr. Duclos and the many witnesses for being with us today.

Mr. Duclos, most of my questions are not my own. These are questions I've received from people in my riding in Quebec, as well as people elsewhere in Canada.

With regard to oral health care, which you mentioned earlier, I want to remind you that everyone likes apple pie. Oral health care for all ages is a great idea.

That said, I have a first question from a woman in my riding. She wants to know why she has to have a Sun Life card, because there are public servants in Quebec and people once were able to use their Quebec health card to receive dental care, especially for their children.

I was also wondering if you could remind us how much the dental care management contract cost at Sun Life, and how many people could have received care if the money had been transferred to Quebec so that its jurisdiction would have been respected.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That's a great set of questions, Mrs. Vignola, and I thank you for asking them.

With respect the Régie de l'assurance maladie du Québec, or RAMQ, dental care should have been included with health insurance in Quebec and elsewhere in Canada for the past 50 years or so. Despite hopes and efforts, that never came to be back then. Dental care is therefore not covered, except for very specific groups in Quebec and elsewhere in the country.

In Quebec, dental is covered only for children under the age of 10, and for certain types of care in particular. That excludes most of the preventive care for children. As we know, that care is so important to children's health and development.

There is very little coverage for other Quebecers, which means that there are major dental care needs in Quebec, even more so than elsewhere in Canada. We've seen this in recent months, because a third of the Canadian plan members are Quebecers.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Duclos, I'll repeat my constituent's question.

Why does she have to have a Sun Life card when health transfers could have been made to Quebec so that she could use her Régie de l'assurance maladie du Québec card?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

There are two reasons for that.

First, the Régie de l'assurance maladie du Québec card does not cover dental care for the vast majority of Quebecers.

Second, 95% of providers in Quebec are registered with the Canadian plan. Sun Life is working very effectively to get dentists, denturists and hygienists paid quickly, in less than two days, and to make it simple for them to provide customer support. They took on vulnerable patients who would not otherwise have gone to them.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

My constituent thought that if the transfers were done in accordance with Quebec’s jurisdictions, she could use her health insurance card. That was not the case before, certainly.

Remaining with the issue of oral healthcare, I received other emails. People went to their dentist and were told and were not covered, because that dentist is not one of the plan’s eligible providers, as they did not successfully complete the registration process, which is long and complicated. These people were then invited to go see another dentist the next time. That means they have to find another dentist who isn’t already overbooked.

We see the same thing with denturists. A constituent wrote me this week to tell me that they had been waiting for a partial prosthetic for four months, and the process was so long that the denturist recommended they go see someone else.

Why is the process so long? What makes it so complicated? Why is it that these people, in spite of the promises made, cannot access the care they seriously need?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

First, 95% of dental health providers in Quebec are registered with the program. Second, new ones register every day. Third, some dentists, denturists or hygienists do indeed already have enough clientele.

However, others do have services available. To find those services, simply type the words “dental plan” online, and you will quickly find a website where you can enter your postal code to find a dentist, denturist or hygienist nearby, if the one you usually see is not registered, which is rarely the case.

Last, if participants and dental care providers are having problems—we know there are not many, but there are always some, obviously—we invite them and strongly encourage them to contact Health Canada.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

We all know that Canada Life was awarded the contract to administer public servants’ medical insurance plan. I do want to say that Canada Life has improved since then. The problem is its subcontractor, MSH International, which does not seem to understand things very well.

When it comes to dental care, public service retirees are also covered by Canada Life, just like actively working public servants. What was the cost of the Canada Life dental care contract for public service retirees?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I will answer your first question. As for the second, I will invite officials to come and answer in more detail.

When it comes to the improvements you noted over the last months, it is because you—like many others—pointed out the problems the system had at the beginning. As you noted, these problems have largely disappeared. However, problems still remain, and it’s very frustrating, especially for people who live abroad. We encourage all MPs to raise awareness, as you did, about these challenges and problems, so that Canada Life does its job.

How much did it cost?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry, Minister, but that is our time. If there's anything else, perhaps the officials can respond, or you can finish up in the next session.

Mr. Boulerice, go ahead, please.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for being with us today, with your entire army here to support you.

I am very interested in the fact that the Bloc Quebecois is asking questions about the dental care plan, because if it had not been for the NDP and our negotiations to make the government provide this dental care service, it would not have happened.

I am also proud of the fact that 1 million Quebecers are now registered with the dental care plan, and more than 325,000 of them already had access to a dentist or dental care paid in whole or in part by this new federal program. I am delighted by it, because it is something our party pushed for, and we are very proud to have it, unlike the Bloc Quebecois.

I want to ask you a question about the Canada Border Services Agency digital portal. Radio Canada recently informed us that the system for import duties for certain goods cost nearly half a billion dollars and, in a single month, the portal experienced 22 service interruptions, some of which lasted several hours.

This tool has been in the works since 2010. That means the federal government worked on it for 14 years. It cost $500 million that came from public funds, but it doesn’t work.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Boulerice.

Quickly, on the subject of the dental plan, you are right to say that your support was important and essential. We congratulate you for it. We thank you for it. You are also right to highlight the fact that it is not over. Indeed, as of 2025, more than 1 million Quebecers aged 18 to 64 years old will become eligible for the Canada Dental Care Plan. A lot of work remains to be done during the first half of 2025, and we will continue to work with your collaboration and support.

On the subject of the Border Services Agency’s Assessment and Revenue Management system, you are right in saying it is a critical system, which did indeed cost a lot of money in recent years. However, it is an absolutely essential system, because the old system—which was 35 years old—was at risk of going off-line at any given moment. When installing this type of large system, there are always problems in the beginning. Those problems must be known and recognized.