Government Operations Committee on Feb. 11th, 2022

[Manon Fortin]

I think every executive team reviews and discusses their results on a regular basis.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I'm not trying to be critical, but I'm surprised that nobody on this call today knows what the margins are in some of these business units. I would have thought you would be able to rhyme them off, lickety-split, but maybe not.

The question I am still unsure of is where you see this going. I'm from rural Ontario. Where do we see the delivery business going? Where do we look at the performance levels for these individual Canada Post stations?

[Manon Fortin]

Where do we see it going, or where do we see it?

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

You've described some of the business climate that you're in today, and we've talked a bit about rural delivery. Where's the strategy at Canada Post to continue to deliver mail to rural addresses in light of a declining business market?

[Manon Fortin]

Our strategy is to build on what the pandemic has brought to us from the changing needs of Canadians, which is in the parcel business. Where we are going is....

We place incredible value on the rural network, as well as the urban network. We're proud of it. It differentiates us from others. We are investing heavily across the network, including the smallest office that delivers to the smallest community, to the biggest plant in Toronto that drives most of the parcel volume in Canada.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I'll ask one last question, if there is any time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Lobb. Unfortunately, that's the five minutes.

We'll now go to Mr. Bains for five minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. Bains.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This is a great discussion we're having here.

Recent census data showed us that B.C. is the most desirable place to live in Canada. We're having a discussion around rural and small communities. Some of our rural communities are becoming small communities, rather than remaining rural. We've seen throughout COVID that people are choosing to work remotely and are leaving the urban centres and going into the smaller communities, such as Lake Country and Langford on the Island. There is significant growth in B.C. We've just hit a population of five million.

Are you monitoring this? What adjustments are you making to meet those demands? Are you seeing those demands specifically in the smaller communities? What changes are being brought forward there?

[Manon Fortin]

We are absolutely seeing that change. That is why I mentioned that volume growth in the pandemic. Between 2019 and 2021, the urban growth in packages was 13%. The rural growth was 48%. We think part of that is from people moving away from the urban centres. Think of Toronto, and then think of Barrie and the surrounding area. It's the same in Vancouver, with people moving away from Vancouver into the surrounding areas.

It creates a challenge for us from a network perspective. There might have been a little truck going from the main office to that community before to a small post office with two employees serving that community. Now we have to have a bigger truck, so we've changed that and we have to expand.

I talked about Saint-Lin-des-Laurentides. I don't know if members know that location in northern Montreal. It used to consist of people going to their cottages. Now it's people who live there. It's a beautiful area. We've had to expand—

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

In your previous answer, you rattled off a number of locations, primarily in the east. I'm concerned about B.C. What is happening in B.C.?

[Manon Fortin]

We have areas across the country. I could send you the information. I listed a bunch, but the list is three pages long of where we're building new...or expanding or changing the network or adding trucks. It's quite long, because there has been a significant impact on that network, for sure.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Right, and we have different geographical terrain in B.C. also, and you're adapting to those impacts as well.

[Manon Fortin]

Absolutely. We've had to adapt. We've put in contingencies while we're able to find a new building or to expand the building. We've put in contingencies in some of those locations, but there are plans in many communities, and of course, we go by our prioritization. It starts with the service, and then the capacity of the community versus the growth. That's how we've been prioritizing those investments.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Are you getting feedback? I know that it was one of my previous questions, and I don't think we got to the answer on that. How often do you measure customer feedback?

[Manon Fortin]

I know that the retail network.... Well, maybe Serge is in a much better position to answer that question, since he is in business development and is customer-facing.

[Serge Pitre]

We are measuring multiple different areas. We use what we call the “net promoter score” methodology to reach out to consumers, what we call “mid-market” and very small businesses across the country. By adding the feedback of not only Canadian citizens but also businesses, we have implemented a plan to improve our service. This is the way for us to get feedback from consumers and businesses.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. Fortin, could you please forward the information as you indicated?

Maybe with the few seconds I have left I'll give a shout-out to one of your colleagues in B.C. here, Mike Lee, who has done a great job of reaching out to all of us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bains.

We'll now go to Ms. Vignola for two and a half minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Fortin, there is an English expression that says:

“know your enemy”.

Has Canada Post carried out comparative studies on its various competitors that would analyze cost per parcel, by weight, distances covered and employee costs?

Are salaries, benefits, employee ages and staff turnover comparable?

In short, have there been any solid comprehensive studies that provide enough reliable information about your competitors to level the playing field for you?

[Manon Fortin]

I will let Mr. Pitre answer the question about competitors and their playing field.

[Serge Pitre]

Thank you very much.

We are in fact carrying out studies on competition in the Canadian market to see what our competitors are doing.

You mentioned the English expression,

SWOT analysis,

Which rendered into French becomes an "FFPM or SWOT analysis," in reference to strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats. Most of our competitors in Canada do more than just e-commerce. They also do B2B or Business-to-business commerce, which somewhat changes their business model and all of their activities in Canada.

Rest assured that we are doing the studies required to come out on top, and also to serve all Canadians, because that's our primary role. We don't have the option of saying yes or no to certain types of business, and we need to serve everyone.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I'd like to make a short comment.

The collective agreement with Canada Post employees gives them a right to take leave if they are ill or have to be placed in quarantine. They are not entitled to the Canada Emergency Response Benefit, or the CERB. However, employees at competing companies who had to take leave because they were ill, are so entitled.

Do you consider that to be an advantage for employees, but a financial disadvantage for Canada Post?

[Manon Fortin]

I consider that an advantage, because our priority is the safety of our employees. We wanted to give them the opportunity to request leave if they had contracted COVID-19, if their children could not go to school or if they had to care for an elderly person.

It was the right thing to do, and I'm happy that we were able to do so.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you very much.

We will go to Mr. Johns for two and a half minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Ms. Fortin, and all of the 68,000 employees at Canada Post. I greatly appreciate your work, especially given the circumstances of COVID-19.

Now, to go back to postal banking, we know it works from experiences in other countries and economies similar to Canada's, such as the U.K., New Zealand, France, Italy and even Switzerland. Postal banking is part of the community, and it's profitable. Given the deficits you're facing and the challenges coming out of COVID-19, it just seems to make sense that there's no better time for Canada Post to help build profits for now and for the future. We know that corporate banks, as I stated earlier, have been abandoning rural and urban Canada. Fewer than 10% of indigenous communities actually have a bank or credit union.

You talked about some of the success you're seeing in your pilots. Many people rely on private businesses right now to cash their cheques in these rural areas, and in urban areas the payday lenders are preying on people. Access to one's own money is not just a privilege; it's a right, one that no Canadian should be denied. Your own unions are calling for it.

Why is Canada Post not moving forward with postal banking? What are the barriers?