Government Operations Committee on March 4th, 2022

[Paul Thompson]

This is another active area for the department. We have a very broad greening government agenda that we are supporting, and it entails buildings and building materials as well as vehicles.

With respect to vehicles, we've been significantly increasing the procurement of both hybrid and electric vehicles, having purchased over 1,200 in the last three years. We've made both hybrid and battery electric vehicles available on standing offers for other departments.

We've also been working on the infrastructure that supports the use of electric vehicles. We've installed over 260 charging stations in federal facilities so they're available not only for the government fleet but also for other uses in and around federal buildings. It's a multipronged effort. It's still hampered somewhat by the evolving capability in the industry and the production capacity, so we've had a few setbacks, but we look forward to doing even more in this space in the coming months.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

That's perfect.

Just building on that question, the Treasury Board of Canada is requesting approval for the transfer of $350,000 under vote 1 to PSPC to support projects that will reduce greenhouse gas emissions in government operations. What concrete action will PSPC put in place to reach carbon neutrality by 2030?

[Paul Thompson]

One of the interesting initiatives we have in play is around green electricity. In those parts of the country where green electricity is not already available, we've been making efforts to either directly purchase these green alternatives or to purchase renewable energy certificates. These are two methods by which we are optimistic we will have a net-zero electricity carbon footprint by the end of 2022.

We are also working in the national capital area on leveraging centralized heating and cooling, which has considerable greening benefits as well. Those are a few examples in addition to the work I mentioned on vehicles.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Mrs. Vignola for two and a half minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to come back quickly to Phoenix, and to ProGen, the next generation pay system.

As I understand it, we are not expecting the Phoenix backlog to be cleared before ProGen is put into operation. Am I out to lunch on that?

[Sony Perron]

Our objective is to recommend a process of experimentation in the first half of 2023, a year and a few months from now. We will then know what we can do and which system we can adopt. The work that PSPC is doing to stabilize the system and clear the backlog is essential for the transition.

Now, the date when the systems come together has not been determined. We have to keep eliminating problem cases, stabilizing the system and working on the quality of the data. Of course, we already know that, if you import poor quality data into a system, it will produce poor results. That work is going on in parallel. Our work for the next year and a half will be to see when and how we will bring the two processes together. That is part of the work we are doing with ProGen.

I cannot speculate on the recommendation that will be made next year, because we have not finished the tests. Normally, however, if the recommendation is to implement one of those products, we will have to have an implementation strategy that recognizes that two sources of work are going to end up joining into one.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

So the victims of Phoenix can live in hope that the backlog will be cleared in two years, if all the tests work out and everything goes well.

[Paul Thompson]

I would like to add a few points.

As I mentioned, it is our intention to reduce the backlog in the next two years. Furthermore, we are focusing on the transactions that have major financial consequences for the employees. That number is decreasing each month. In that respect, the situation will gradually improve in the coming months.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

How much has the ProGen project cost us to date?

[Sony Perron]

I will ask Ms. Hazen to give you the exact, current figures for the ProGen project.

[Samantha Hazen, Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Chief Financial Officer Branch, Shared Services Canada]

Mr. Chair, thank you for the question.

As of February 10, 2022, SSC has incurred expenditures of $30.6 million on the NextGen initiative.

[Sony Perron]

If I can add, this is about the staff internally to do the work, but it's also about the contracts we have in place with the qualified vendors to do their part of the work, which is to test their solutions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Mr. Johns for two and a half minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thanks.

Going back to a question earlier around Phoenix, what mechanisms are you putting in place to reduce the amount of outsourcing? I never got an answer on that.

[Paul Thompson]

Mr. Chair, the contracts that were mentioned were with respect to business re-engineering and maintaining the continuity of the system itself. The focus is on public servants to do the pay administration. I mentioned that we hired 120 compensation advisers, for example, and we have a contingent of, I believe, over 2,000 employees working on pay.

The challenge is to deal with the retention issues in the workforce and maintain the skilled workforce that we need to deliver the services. That's what the focus is on now.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Going back to the question that Mr. McCauley, Mrs. Vignola and Ms. Thompson talked about, indigenous procurement, you're saying that next year you're going to meet the targets.

Where are you at right now? What percentage of procurement are you at for indigenous businesses?

[Paul Thompson]

We've been up and down a little bit, but we've been very close to the target—within a very small margin, I would say. We're optimistic.

COVID was a bit of a setback, for a couple of reasons. It affected our ability to do outreach. It affected indigenous businesses. It changed the landscape of what we were actually procuring. As I mentioned, we did try to lean in on COVID procurement. We had 40 contracts in the COVID space that were worth over $130 million. There were significant efforts made, despite the change in what we were buying, to still provide opportunities for indigenous businesses.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Page, you seem to be the expert on the shipbuilding part.

I don't know if this is the right venue, but we had the PBO testify at committee about the lack of capacity in shipbuilding in Canada and the fact that we don't have a stable long-term sector.

I live in Port Alberni. We have a deep-sea port on the west coast of Vancouver Island. We've heard that there are very few dry dock opportunities between Oregon and Alaska, and there's about $3 billion a year needed to build....

Is there much communication between your department, Transport Canada, and rural and economic development Canada outlining gaps and opportunities? Are you working collectively on creating programs, so that Port Alberni, for example, which has these aspirations in working with indigenous peoples and the private sector, can get these initiatives off the ground?

[Simon Page]

I am very happy to report that the answer to this question is, absolutely. We have a couple of strategies that are specifically focused on working together, not only with other government departments but with the shipyards and the marine industry at large in Canada, to look at specific domains where challenges may be encountered. One of them is focused on human resources and the workforce, and building a marine sector. Another one, for instance, is focused on infrastructure, and we have others that are focused on skills development.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

The Port Alberni Port Authority is saying that they're not getting access to these programs. Transport Canada is saying they don't have a program that exists to help support those initiatives. I'm hoping you can create the program, so that when there are gaps, we can help create more opportunities so that it lowers costs overall for procurement.

[Simon Page]

I understand, Mr. Chair. Thank you for the note.

There are some associations outside of government business that are focused on integrating members into a larger marine industry discussion nationally. Every organization is entitled to join these organizations and to share its comments, so that we can have a greater understanding, a comprehensive understanding at the national level, of what's going on.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Mr. Lobb for five minutes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

I remember years ago, and I still have the scars to prove it, defending the procurement of the F-35. It's been over 10 years now. At that time, I believe the costs for the planes and all the ancillary costs were $16 billion, and they were to be delivered around 2016.

Mr. Thompson, what are we talking about now, in terms of ballpark pricing, and how many would we be talking about at this time?

[Paul Thompson]

This, for me, is a very large-scale procurement. We have our expert right on the line here, so I might engage Simon Page with some further details on the contract.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Okay, sure.