Evidence of meeting #84 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbsa.
A video is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thank you, Mr. Utano.
Mr. Barrett, you have five minutes please.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Was GC Strategies named in any legal documentation for the work done with Botler, Mr. MacDonald?
5 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
I wouldn't be aware of any of the legal work done that you're referring to. I apologize.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
In the official documentation for the project, was GC Strategies listed?
5 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
The only official documentation that I am aware of, that I was privy to, is a task authorization for a feasibility study. There was never mention of a pilot. There was never mention of GC Strategies whatsoever.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
GC Strategies was not named on the task authorization.
5:05 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
Neither is Botler.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
They were subcontractors, though.
5:05 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
No. On the task authorization are Dalian Enterprises and Coradix. I am not privy to or aware of or provided with any subcontracting arrangements. I am not involved in any of the discussions that take place between third party partnerships.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
You would never know, then, were it not for the public reporting on this, that payment to Botler flowed through GC Strategies and that GC Strategies then took a percentage for its involvement.
5:05 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
I left the CBSA before any of the deliverables or payments would have been made. I wouldn't be aware of the payment structure or what their agreements are.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
On what date did you complete your time at the CBSA?
5:05 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
I think it was May 3. I got pulled over pretty quickly, and I didn't go back to my official records, but it was around May 3 that I started at Health Canada.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
After Botler asked the CBSA to stop payments because of misconduct, Diane Daly of the CBSA demanded that payments go through GC Strategies. Is that correct?
5:05 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
I'm not privy to those emails. I wasn't around at that time.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
You've said that you're not friends with Mr. Firth of GC Strategies. Is that correct?
5:05 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
That is correct.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
You didn't have much to do with him.
5:05 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
I've met Mr. Firth three times out of an office place in my entire life.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
It appears that you placed a high amount of trust in him to deliver on a project that you deemed to be of exceptionally high importance. That's the appearance of it. Why?
5:05 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
The only thing I can tell you about my experience and the only time I had worked with Mr. Firth before Botler was on ArriveCAN, and I can tell you that the consultants he brought to the table delivered. I recognize that not everybody likes the policies of ArriveCAN, but we delivered and delivered and delivered. That year that I was on, we never missed a deliverable once.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
In fairness, I would say that you delivered a very expensive price tag to Canadians, and that you delivered a lot of Canadians into quarantine who did not meet the necessity to have been ordered into quarantine. They were illegally detained. Those are also outcomes for that project as well.
We've heard one witness who was caught lying to this committee; that was on full display. We've heard assertions that there have been others, so we see, based on the allegations that we've heard from Botler, that there's a network of people who are not following the rules, who are breaking the law. That's why there's an RCMP investigation. You've pushed yourself quite hard against this so that you're not associated with it.
I'm very curious about the motives of everyone involved, about the people who would be lying, so I'm going to ask you a couple of questions. I'd like you to respond as quickly as possible, please.
Based on what you know, was Mr. Firth honest and truthful in all of his presentation and responses to the committee?
5:05 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I'm going to circle back to that.
Was Mr. Doan truthful and fulsome and honest?
5:05 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency