Government Operations Committee on Jan. 18th, 2024

[John Ossowski]

That's a good question. I would say I'm not privy to all of the information that certainly might come up from the Auditor General's work or the work of the procurement ombudsman, but I'm certain that the agency and the government would receive any recommendations to improve procurement gratefully.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you.

I think we've determined here and from what you mentioned earlier also that the federal information technology project ArriveCAN was developed in record time under dire circumstances and it ultimately saved money over the paper process that involved people filling out forms. It also saved time. Do you feel the decision made at that time provided good value for taxpayers' dollars?

[John Ossowski]

As I mentioned, I don't think anyone could have predicted how many iterations and versions of the app there would be and all of the different tools that were built into it for things like holding vaccine certificates and people's health care and personal information. It was something that started off as a very modest, simple application to take contact tracing information and pass that along, and it grew into something incredibly sophisticated. From that perspective and as I said to Mr. Jowhari, I think it was definitely more effective than a paper-based process. In retrospect if this were to happen again, I'm sure there were lessons learned about how we would do this better. Other than that, I don't have any comment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That is our time.

Thanks, Mr. Bains. Thank you again for your flexibility.

Ms. Vignola, go ahead for two and a half minutes, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Ossowski, when did the pandemic officially begin in Canada?

[John Ossowski]

That's a good question. I would have to go back and check, but it was somewhere in the middle of March 2020.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Some of the emails we receive mention “MoBo” as early as 2019. I assume this is Mobile Border.

Is Mobile Border the predecessor of ArriveCAN? Did this project exist long before the pandemic?

[John Ossowski]

I don't recollect the details of the Mobile Border. I think that was actually for officers to use internally so that they had something as a mobile tool to use when they were going on tour buses. I would have to go back and check with the agency on that one. Perhaps Ms. O'Gorman knows.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Ms. O'Gorman, I'm going to ask you my question about language.

It was said that English was a requirement. I won't go through the whole introduction again, but when I saw that, I thought to myself that, for C, C+ and C# languages, an expert can be French‑speaking.

An expert from Quebec or another Canadian province may not express themselves perfectly in English. In fact, I know people who are entirely English‑speaking who make mistakes, and not just one per square kilometre.

Why require English when your public servants are supposed to be bilingual, understand both languages and be able to communicate with suppliers in both languages?

[Erin O'Gorman]

There is a distinction between bilingualism when it comes to applications and services to Canadians and bilingualism when it comes to working in IT.

As I understand it, English is the common language of work in this market. It's the language people work in. That's why we asked that English be mandatory. That was one of the three choices.

This reflects the fact that most people who work in IT work in English. The concepts are in English.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

The best IT people—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm afraid we don't have time for another question.

Mr. Johns, I'll turn it over to you. Go ahead, please.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

First, I just want to give Ms. O'Gorman a really quick chance to respond to Mr. Genuis's question. She wasn't given a chance to reply, and I don't know if she wants to take that opportunity.

[Erin O'Gorman]

I would just say that the CBSA is conducting this investigation in the same way that it conducts all investigations. That's very important, and it's important for the people of the CBSA to see that we don't do things differently based on people's levels. The team is carrying out the investigation. There are established steps supported by jurisprudence. I'm not involved in talking to the investigators. I'm certainly not directing anything related to that investigation. I receive updates. When I receive a document, I share it with the relevant deputy heads. We are conducting that investigation in a way that is absolutely consistent with others. The public profile is certainly making it a challenge. We want to wrap it up quickly, and we want all those involved to participate in the investigation and meet with the investigators.

Thank you for the opportunity to make that clear.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I'm going to move a procedural motion from the last meeting. The motion has been circulated in both official languages, and it reads:

That the clerk inform Vaughn Brennan that the committee sends for all records of communications from January 1, 2019 through the present between Vaughn Brennan and Ritika Dutt, Amir Morv, and any other persons acting as or on behalf of Botler AI, including communications by email, call, text message, or any other method, and that the information be provided to the clerk of the committee no later than 12:00 PM EST on February 1, 2024.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

Mr. Johns, I just want to confirm. Is this the one you brought forward yesterday?

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Go ahead, Mr. Sousa.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

I just want to say that we will support this motion.

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you very much.

Consider it done, Mr. Johns. Thanks very much for your patience with that. You have about five seconds left.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I would like to move another motion, Mr. Chair, if I could. This motion I would like to speak to as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Johns, you're basically out of time. We have one more round coming up. Could you do it in the last round, please?

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

It is my understanding that I can move motions in my time and that it suspends.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You were actually out of time. I said you had five seconds. Could you save it for the next round, please?

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Okay.