Government Operations Committee on Oct. 30th, 2025

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I would like to direct my first question to Deputy Minister Reza.

We talked briefly in the first round of questions about the buy Canadian policy that we've heard the Prime Minister speak of, the opportunity to do more business with Canadian companies. I'm wondering if you can enlighten us on the status of that and on the objectives moving forward with this policy.

[Arianne Reza]

Various elements and key underpinnings of the policy have been announced by the Prime Minister both in June with the reciprocal procurement policy and in sectoral analysis and announcements that followed in September. We're busy at PSPC working across the system with TBS looking at the various elements there to make sure that preferential treatment, where it can, will be there for Canadian SMEs and for Canadian scale-ups.

We're working to unpack what that looks like. We have some supply chain pieces. We have an active ongoing consultation on our web page. We're working through various elements, whether it's Canadian content, Canadian IP, what clauses should and could look like and how we can ensure that competition still occurs. That's a really key piece because we all very much focused on our procurement system being fair, open and transparent, and on competition.

It's looking at how we can actually manage that and how we can enable that, looking at what the underpinnings are that will help Canadian SMEs. Often we have an opportunity to come to OGGO to talk about the procurement assistance Canada program and what the focus of buy Canada can do in communities to enable that scale-up, that access to procurement opportunities.

I'll pause here to see if the Treasury Board Secretariat would like to add anything.

[Bill Matthews]

I think that's good.

[Arianne Reza]

He was my boss for a long time, so we don't normally come to committee together.

It's just to have that double piece of the Treasury Board policies and the various suites, as well as what PSPC is going to be doing to work with suppliers. Suppliers are very interested, and they want to hear more.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata, ON]

They absolutely are interested. I'm certainly hearing it in my riding, in Kanata.

Interestingly enough, you touched on the next point that I wanted to dig into a little bit, and that was the procurement assistance Canada program. Admittedly, this is not something that I knew about even a year ago. It has become much more of a topic.

Can you expand upon the role of that program, especially moving forward, once the policy is in place for Canadian SMEs?

[Arianne Reza]

I will start and then ask one of my colleagues to join.

The procurement assistance program has been in flight for many years now. It has regional offices across Canada—six regional offices. Their remit is to work with Canadian SMEs to show them how to compete, to explain to them the process and to make sure they can register in the e-procurement system so that they see the competitions and so that they understand was bid documents look like.

We're doing a lot of work with them one-on-one. I think they reach out to about 50,000 suppliers a year. They work with other programs in the federal suite, like regional development agencies, to actually have a force multiplier to get them in the system and to set them up for success. Sometimes how we compete for federal procurement, how we bundle that procurement and how we look at a supply chain can be daunting. Earlier, we heard the ministers talk about national shipbuilding. That's a great a example, with a very Canadian frame, with a lot of Canadian suppliers.

As it relates to PAC in the future, I'll turn to my colleague.

[Dominic Laporte, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Procurement Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

They're going to be quite involved from a buy Canadian perspective. They're going to be reaching out to Canadian SMEs, making sure that people are aware of all the opportunities. I see a role in the future for our team, and it's going to be quite interesting in the context of buy Canadian.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata, ON]

I want to go back. I'll direct this to the folks at the Treasury Board.

Can you describe for us some of the work that's under way and, perhaps, some of the recent successes or progress in advancing innovation and technology across government operations?

[Dominic Rochon, Chief Information Officer of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat]

As the CIO for the federal government, that definitely falls in my bailiwick. I'm conscious of the fact that we could probably spend a lot of time on it, and you've left me less than two minutes. It's hard to decide where to begin.

We're making some progress. We have a digital ambition. From the Treasury Board Secretariat's perspective, we're putting in place policies; we're investing in technology, and we're investing in the people and the skills we need to be able to advance certain projects.

Right now, AI adoption is all the rage, so I'll take the time for my answer to speak about that. I should point out that this is very much a team game. As much as we set out the rules, the guidelines and the strategies, as the president highlighted in his opening remarks—and we have an AI strategy for the federal public service—we work in tandem with Shared Services Canada and CIOs across different departments and agencies to see government transformation move forward. That transformation needs to happen, not just at the technology level, but at the business level.

AI adoption is an enormous task before us. There are thousands of flowers blooming across the federal government, and we need to make sure that this adoption is done in a very responsible and effective way.

Those are the things we are focusing in on.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

Madam Gaudreau, you have six minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We're having a discussion here in committee.

Several of my questions have gone unanswered. The witnesses may all tell us that they will provide us with the requested information in writing, but we don't want to increase our workload, because it's already heavy enough.

I'm going to go back to the earlier question. As a business person, I'm trying to get a sense of the government's goals: Do they want to break even, find efficiencies, take something away or add something? That's my sense, but we have to remember that the 360,000 public servants are human beings and that there are also a lot of people hired on contract.

How does that work on a daily basis? Does the minister give you information from his mandate and you have to apply it? What happens next?

[Bill Matthews]

Mr. Chair, I can start.

When you want to launch a new program, the government decides how you're going to do it. Are you going to use transfer payments, public servants, another company or maybe a combination? It's the government that decides.

Once the decision is known, we receive a budget. Ultimately, each minister and each deputy minister is responsible for determining exactly how best to implement projects within the allocated budget. Programs often start with the help of public servants and contracts, but each department and its team make the decision.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

You have to deal with the change, which can be radical, stemming from a minister's decision.

What about the results? You have to be accountable and follow up on all contracts. Do you prepare reports every week?

[Bill Matthews]

I can start with the programs and the outcomes. I will then turn to my counterparts, Mr. Rochon and Mr. Davis, who can comment on the contracts.

In the case of federal programs, each department produces annual reports to indicate whether they are achieving the expected results, and, if not, then why. It provides an opportunity to explain the results to Parliament.

Do you want to add anything about any particular projects or contracts, Mr. Rochon?

[Dominic Rochon]

We are putting measures and standards in place for service delivery, for example. Each department has to submit reports on their level of service. The Treasury Board Secretariat sets the standards and follows up on them to ensure that a given level of service has been achieved.

With IT and digital projects, it's also a team effort. Treasury Board plays a specific role in overseeing certain projects, particularly the largest ones. However, each department manages this on its own and has its own audit office that does the follow-ups. Of course, the Auditor General plays an important role as well.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

This is to prevent the Auditor General from releasing information about contracts, cases of fraud and so on, that I hope you were already aware of.

Who raises the alarm? You may tell me that you can't say because you've been prohibited from doing so, but we need to know what's going on. This is the taxpayers' money. We have to know how it works.

What happens when you see a red flag and millions of dollars go missing? How does that work?

[Arianne Reza]

It is the responsibility of all employees who work there. If they see something suspicious, they have to follow up. A lot of audits are done, a lot of in-house people look at the details of the assessments. We've talked a lot about invoicing: When someone signs an invoice, another person checks the invoice and someone else checks it again.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Why, then, are there still major scandals popping up? I've been here for six years. What will be the next one? You probably know. I'm sure you see what's coming. I'm just wondering. Surely there is a step in the mechanism that is being neglected. Perhaps people are turning a blind eye or keeping silent. There needs to be accountability. Things are totally opaque.

I'm done. That was my heartfelt plea. I will ask more questions later.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

The rant is appreciated.

Next, we have Ms. Jansen, please, for five minutes.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Thank you very much.

I'm going to direct this to Ms. Reza. It's something that popped up just looking at the panel here.

Ms. Khalid said earlier that Conservatives have a problem with DEI, but looking at the two panels that we've had today, it seems that the government maybe has a bit of a problem with it.

Mr. Trudel, you said that hiring starts with merit, which is awesome, and then the DEI lens is applied. That sounds reasonable, but, again, I'm looking at both of the panels. The last time it was six men and one woman. Now, it's seven men and one woman.

When I raised it with Mr. Ali as he was leaving, he said, or someone said, that the women were texting in.

Help me to understand. How does that demonstrate a real commitment to finding the best talent based on merit? The question is simple. How can Canadians take the government seriously on DEI, when even the tables here don't reflect it?

[Arianne Reza]

That's quite the question to be able to understand.

I will indicate, as my colleagues from Treasury Board noted, there is a public service act. It is embedded on merit as well as different employment and diversity actions.

There's a lot of work that goes on in this place. I look at the deputy table in my ranks. It's probably fifty-fifty there, so this is an unusual representation.

I'll pause there to see if there are any other comments.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Perhaps Mr. Trudel wants to speak to it, because he had mentioned—

[Bill Matthews]

For your information, I will start, Mr. Chair, and I will turn to Mr. Trudel to give you a flavour of the Treasury Board Secretariat.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I'm sorry. I'm really short on time. I know Mr. Trudel did speak about it, so I'm just wondering if he could follow up.

I don't know how a panel could be this outweighed by fellows. I love you guys; it's not that, but with DEI, as Ms. Khalid was mentioning, how does a panel turn out to be so out of balance?

[Francis Trudel]

I can't speak to how we came up with this panel currently. What I can speak to is the public service overall. We have obligations under the employment act to actually have representation in different groups.

I'm assuming you understand the four groups that exist under that act, which are visible minorities, women, the indigenous community, and people with disabilities.