Evidence of meeting #13 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was service.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
See how useful committee meetings are, Mr. Chair. People find out things they didn't know. Municipal elections were just held, and people are finding out about an available service only now. From now on, they are going to use it.
I want to use the little bit of time I have left to shine the light on how the needs of rural areas differ from those of urban centres. We've already talked about that. It's one thing to have a compartment in a community mailbox that is 500 metres away. By the way, that's what we have in my region. However, if there is no public transit for people to get to the post office in the main town, that is another thing.
What is the reality in rural areas? I'd like to hear the witnesses' comments on that. Let's not forget that Saskatchewan, northern Manitoba and the Maritimes are all home to communities with exactly the same needs and realities we are talking about today.
Do you feel that you are being heard, that the reforms at Canada Post are taking your respective needs and realities into account?
Mr. St‑Amour, you can go first.
Mayor of the Municipality Chute-Saint-Philippe, As an Individual
No, we don't feel heard. It's as though only the needs of urban centres are being taken into account and rural areas are being disregarded.
I live in the village of Chute-Saint‑Philippe, and even within the village limits, I have to drive two kilometres away to get to my mailbox. People who live outside the village have to drive 10, 15 and even 20 kilometres to get their mail.
All our villages are in the same boat. They were built around farms started by our grandparents, when people were settling in the northern part of the country. The concessions are big, and the rural roads separating them can be far apart. Houses are at least 200 feet apart, so the distance adds up in no time.
Bloc
Chief Executive Officer, MRC du Golfe-du-Saint-Laurent
Thank you for your question.
No, we don't feel respected. We are in much the same boat as Canada's northern communities.
I believe northern Canada's Innu communities raised the same issue. We are in the same situation they are.
When Canada Post goes on strike, everything grinds to a halt.
Conservative
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
I'm actually going to give my time over to Mr. Boulerice.
Conservative
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
We just learned something interesting. When the minister, Mr. Lightbound, was here, he told us that seniors, people with reduced mobility and people with disabilities weren't really in trouble because there was a program in place to support and assist them.
During the exchange with Ms. Rochefort, we found out that neither Ms. Piché nor Ms. Monger knew about the program, which is mentioned somewhere on the website but doesn't exist in real life. That's really important, so I want to make that clear.
Mr. Aubie, your organization represents a huge number of municipalities. If the Liberals cut home delivery for four million people, we know that hundreds, if not thousands, of jobs will disappear.
What do you think will happen?
How will the loss of good jobs such as postmasters and rural route mail carriers impact the communities and towns you represent?
Manager, Advocacy, Policy and Public Affairs, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
Thank you for your question.
Obviously, as you stated, there would be a significant impact within these communities. These are good-paying jobs. Obviously, we want to ensure that these opportunities are available.
Additionally, it's the impact down the road. Again, we want to be able to see small businesses be competitive within these communities. We think there's a real opportunity to be able to grow and to be able to leverage the Canada Post network, whether it be through banking or through community hubs.
To your point, yes, I would agree that there would be a pretty significant job impact if that were to close, and it would have very negative impact on communities.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Something else we've observed recently is how hard it is to get through to someone at the Canada Revenue Agency.
I could see the government putting a Service Canada representative in every post office, someone who could answer the public's questions. I think the range of services you're referring to is a possible solution.
Ms. Monger, Canada Post is the only mail service provider in your RCM, so you have no alternatives. What, then, does cutting and eliminating home delivery mean for ordinary people in your region on a daily basis?
Chief Executive Officer, MRC du Golfe-du-Saint-Laurent
We don't have home delivery. We have to go to the post office for our mail.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
You are already in that situation, then.
Is that right?
Chief Executive Officer, MRC du Golfe-du-Saint-Laurent
Yes, everyone has to go to the post office to fetch their mail, and that is the case for every community in my RCM. That was already our reality.
We are worried about delivery frequency. During a postal strike, the entire RCM is affected. Everything comes to a standstill.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. St‑Amour, like my fellow member Ms. Gaudreau, I was quite surprised to learn about the impact a temporary or ongoing service disruption could have on your municipality. That means the responsibility is passed on to municipalities like yours, so you are on the hook for the costs.
Are you worried that service cuts or the elimination of services could have other such repercussions for you?
Mayor of the Municipality Chute-Saint-Philippe, As an Individual
We have an obligation to make sure letters and notices go out to people. Every notice has to be sent out within a certain time frame. Whether it's a temporary strike or an ongoing service disruption, it means additional costs for us.
We have to respect our deadlines. We can't stop sending out notices by mail. If we did, we'd be in breach of our legal obligations.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
What's more, alternative service providers are more expensive. One of the advantages of Canada Post is that it provides affordable services right across the country, whether in urban centres, suburban areas or remote communities.
What would having to rely on alternative mail couriers mean for you?
Obviously, a private company isn't going to operate at a loss. It's in business to make money, whereas Canada Post has a different mandate.
What will communities lose if the government does away with that mandate?
Mayor of the Municipality Chute-Saint-Philippe, As an Individual
If Canada Post stopped providing those services and we had to turn to the private sector, the municipality of Chute–Saint‑Philippe would be looking at a bill of about $60,000 a year. We have only a thousand residents, don't forget. That's just to start.
What's more, some of our residents leave the region for work in the city, and they end up getting a job at Canada Post. That happens a lot. Towards the end of their careers, they tend to come back, wanting to contribute to the region's vitality. They want to return while they're still healthy, around the age of 50 or 55. That phenomenon is very significant for us, because it helps to keep our communities strong.
Conservative
Liberal
Vince Gasparro Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all for coming. My questions will be directed toward Mr. Aubie and Mr. St-Amour.
Congratulations on your election victory.
Listening to your testimony, I think there is actually quite a bit of overlap and connection with some of the challenges the Canada Post strike inflicted on rural communities as well as urban communities. There may be varying degrees of differences, but there are some similarities. In my riding of Eglinton—Lawrence, very much an urban Toronto riding, there was in-person pickup for elderly people who were sick and who couldn't get, for example, medicine delivered to their homes. So there's 100% empathy coming from me as an urban member of Parliament on some of the challenges you laid out, sir.
Balanced with this is that Canada Post has a burn rate of about $10 million a day. You've seen massive decreases in postal usage. It is difficult to see a path for high-risk revenue sources like online banking. I come from that world. It is not realistic to say that Canada Post can become a banking hub. There are costs around investments in technology and costs around staffing people who have expertise in risk management and treasury services. It is an incredibly complex business. Canada Post just isn't positioned and will not be positioned to do it. When it comes to any suggestion that Canada Post should transition to banking, we've seen examples from other jurisdictions that have failed miserably. We need to try to be realistic.
My question is open-ended. If I want our kids and grandkids to have a functioning Canada Post, what do you see as realistic changes that can be implemented? I know that this is sort of outside your scope, but what suggestions do you have for Canada Post as a corporation where we can reduce the burn rate from $10 million a day to something that is sustainable while we also try to get services delivered to your constituents and mine?
Manager, Advocacy, Policy and Public Affairs, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
It's a great question.
What does Canada Post look like in the future? I think we're all here because we want to see Canada Post succeed. We acknowledge the critical role it plays for all Canadians coast to coast to coast. To go back to some of my previous comments, certainly, postal banking is one that I mentioned. I understand the challenges you've identified. I'll just say that I think that's part of the solution. I won't speak to whether it can be a whole one or not—that's not my area of expertise—but I think it can be part of one.
The other big one to mention is the significant real estate Canada Post has and the opportunity to be able to leverage that as well. Canada Post has properties all across this country in rural and urban Canada. We think there is a real opportunity there to be able to boost Canada Post revenue through utilizing it, in particular with modular housing, and to be able to use that in rural Canada as well. We really see that as a real opportunity.
There are also the impacts to Canadian businesses, though. As I mentioned previously, if we want to see businesses succeed, whether it be in rural or urban Canada, we want to be able to make sure there's a functional, thriving Canada Post in that community to be able to support those businesses as they grow.
Mayor of the Municipality Chute-Saint-Philippe, As an Individual
Right now, I can't tell you what Canada Post should look like. However, Canada Post's services and service quality need to be maintained in terms of its functions and other service standards and obligations.
The process should take place over a few years, unless governments move more quickly and things become operational sooner. Long-term planning is important to avoid service and quality disruptions.
