Evidence of meeting #30 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was affairs.
A video is available from Parliament.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Thank you for that question.
I think my colleague Mr. Trudel will want to add something.
With respect to the workforce and the plan, I can say that the plan applies to all departments. They have to implement decisions in a way that maintains key programs and services, and so forth. Departments and managers are responsible for managing that.
Do you wish to add anything, Mr. Trudel?
Francis Trudel Associate Chief Human Resources Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
There are plans related to the budget cuts. We've discussed how departments will administer all that.
Part of your question was also about how the budget cuts would be put in place. The implementation of these budget cuts leaves little room for improvisation. The employer and unions have already negotiated the process through collective agreements. It's known as workforce adjustment.
Employees who wish to can explore opportunities to continue working in the public service in other positions, ones that are not being eliminated. Employees can choose this option. They may also choose to leave their employment, and in that case, there are transition measures for that. In short, there is very little room to improvise because this has been negotiated and agreed between the employer and employees.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Nevertheless, tens of thousands of letters have gone out to public servants. We saw this in Quebec's health care system in 2016. People's efficiency at work changed a lot. They knew it was coming. The thousands of public servants must be talking in the hallways and wondering what's happening.
When are the measures going to be implemented? When will all the departments have a structure?
Union representatives have told us they were not consulted as they should have been, and some said they were not consulted at all.
Associate Chief Human Resources Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
That's correct. A number of letters have gone out as part of the process I described a few moments ago, about 25,000 letters. The process has been initiated in accordance with the agreement with unions, and the unions are monitoring it closely. The 25,000 letters are notifying people that they might be affected, and so you're correct to say that there's a certain amount of trepidation once that happens.
The next step is to identify solutions with the employees. It's mandatory to offer a program for those who want to leave voluntarily and who don't want to go through assessment reviews to determine who stays and who goes.
We anticipate that 9,700 of the 25,000 individuals will lose their jobs through that measure. I'm giving you these two numbers to show you that the number of people concerned by the letters, as you said, is much bigger than the number of people who are going to lose their jobs. We are providing reassurance to many people when it comes to the transition.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
If I were offered a good exit package at a time when the door has been left open to consultants and subcontractors, as a business woman, my instinct would be to start my own business and come back to work here.
Seriously, are we going to end up plugging all the holes? As it is, we're talking about the Cúram application right now.
I'm joking, Mr. Chair, but I'm constantly wondering what the next scandal is going to be. I was elected to this House in 2019. It started with the WE charity, and the scandals just keep piling up.
How do you plan to maintain efficiency without spending more on contracts?
The question is, how much can costs be cut.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I'll just make a brief comment.
All departments have seen a reduction in their budgets. That includes operating budgets. Many departments came up with proposals to reduce their spending on consultants.
As Ms. Boudreau has already said, the budget provides for reduced spending on consultants in general. The budget allows us to have key oversight.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Through the chair, thank you for joining us today.
The main estimates were tabled two weeks ago, as my colleague noted, but we have not seen the departmental plans. It is my understanding that departmental plans are the justification for spending plans. Why were they not tabled along with the main estimates?
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
The goal with the departmental plans.... The member is right. They are absolutely a key document to understanding the requests made by each department. They should be tabled as soon as possible after the main estimates. They will be tabled in the coming days. We've had mixed practices, I would say, over the years in terms of tabling them the day after, etc. Often, they're a week or so behind. They will be coming up very soon for tabling.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
While you've stated that it's a given practice, you have nothing that provides departments with a deadline date for when they need to be tabled. Is that correct?
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
We have a deadline date that goes out to departments in terms of submitting their materials and getting them aligned. This year, as the committee knows, the fall budget was a new approach, and that has caused a few processes to be adjusted. Departments get a deadline, ministers sign off and, in general, they respect that deadline. Then the government chooses when to table the departmental plans.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Can you tell us what that deadline is for this fall budget?
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I do not recall when they were due, but I'm looking to my colleague. We can confirm that later on in terms of what the internal deadline was to get them in to Treasury Board Secretariat.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Okay. Thank you. I would appreciate that.
Can you tell us the breakdown by region of the reductions or layoffs?
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I do not have the breakdown by region. Obviously, the majority of public service positions are in the national capital region. I know that one of the lenses departments were putting on was the breakdown in terms of where the jobs will be, but I can follow up to see if we can get you an answer in terms of the breakdown.
Francis, do you have anything? No? Okay.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
I would appreciate that.
You referenced the national capital region. Are these layoffs equally affecting Ottawa and the national capital region the same as regions elsewhere?
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
That will depend on the decisions made, so by department.... Obviously, there's sensitivity in terms of preserving regional jobs to the extent possible. A lot of the efficiencies being gained in terms of the national capital region, where a lot of the corporate service types of roles take place, are consolidating teams.
I'm not aware of a disproportionate impact one way or the other between regions and the national capital region, but I will try to get those numbers for the committee.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
I would appreciate that.
I have another couple of questions.
On page 214 of the budget, “Optimizing Productivity in Government”, there's an additional target of savings of $7.75 billion over three years, but you won't report on the progress of this until budget 2026. Is this part of the CER?
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
The $7.75 billion you are referring to is not part of the CER. It's above and beyond.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Is that above and beyond the comprehensive expenditure review?
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
That was announced and was done by the departments and agencies. It is above and beyond what you see in the main estimates.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
That's very interesting.
Progress won't be reported on until this next fall. Is that correct?
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I don't have the timing for you, but I can come back. I don't know when it will be reported back, but for sure, that amount is not included in the main estimates tabled two weeks ago.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
That's additional.
Do you foresee that this program could cause further reductions or layoffs?
