Evidence of meeting #49 for Health in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was research.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Mr. Brenders, can you go ahead, please. I'm sorry, my apologies to you.
4:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, BIOTECanada
As for the implications of conflict of interest, I think Dr. Rouleau emphasized that very clearly--
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
On a point of order, Madam Chair, I did not ask him a second question. He wanted to answer, but I did not ask a question. So if I may put my last question--
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
No, you're way over time anyway. I was just giving you some leverage.
So we'll now go on to Dr. Carrie.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
Is that including the extra time that you took from me, Madam Chair, for questions?
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I want to thank all of the witnesses for being here today.
I thought I would start with you, Dr. Rouleau, because you have been cut off a number of times here.
It seems that the council's integrity is being questioned here. My colleague mentioned that the ethics committee looked at the appointment. From what my understanding is, they looked at it and they determined that things were okay and then signed off on it. You said you'd been there, that the governing council knows what it needs. We hear the lawyers talking about some hypotheticals here, what they think the governing council would need.
Was this appointment unanimous? Was it welcomed by members of the board? How does the board feel about this appointment? What reaction has it received from the members who are there?
4:10 p.m.
Dean, Faculty of Medecine, Université de Montréal
It's been enthusiastically received, and some of the concerns that have been expressed are concerns we discussed in some detail. People had to meet Dr. Prigent and make up their own minds in discussing some of these important issues. I can tell you that those who had hesitancies changed them and are enthusiastically supporting it. So yes, it's unanimously supported by governing council, and I can tell you that the overwhelming majority of deans of faculties of medicine also support this.
4:10 p.m.
Dean, Faculty of Medecine, Université de Montréal
The ethics group wanted their concerns expressed, and they were expressed very well by a member of GC, who is chairman of that committee. He was satisfied that everything was met, and he himself signed the letter supporting the nomination of Dr. Prigent.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Could you excuse me? I just wanted to ask Dr. Rouleau if there is anything he wanted to correct, because he was cut off a couple of times. Was there anything else?
4:10 p.m.
Dean, Faculty of Medecine, Université de Montréal
There is nothing in particular. I just think it's important to keep in mind what in fact we do at governing council. It seems as if we micromanage a lot of things, but we don't. We do direction setting, and we do watch each other very carefully to be certain everybody meets the highest standards of ethics and there is no conflict of interest or perception of conflict of interest in the decisions being made or things being said by various people.
You have to have different points of view on a council to be able to think things through properly.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
I do understand that. I believe there are 17 members on this board.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Dr. Carrie, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I think Dr. Downie wanted to make some comments.
Go ahead.
4:15 p.m.
Canada Research Chair in Health Law and Policy, Professor of Law and Medicine, Dalhousie University
I just wanted to correct the record, because the way it has been represented in terms of what happened with the ethics people is incorrect. You need to understand that in terms of external ethics expertise that is brought to CIHR, you have one person who is a member of the governing council, and that is the chair of the standing committee on ethics.
On all of the institutes—there are 13 institutes—you have an ethics designate. What happened is that those 13 designates from the institute advisory boards got together, and they were very concerned about this appointment and said they must go to the standing committee on ethics and say they were very concerned. They did not support this appointment. On the same day, they had a meeting—this is available in the public record. They went to meet with and had a joint meeting with the standing committee on ethics. That group as a whole did not support this appointment and asked their chair to take this to governing council
The additional piece is that the two previous ethics members of governing council do not support this appointment and have stated publicly that, had they been on the governing council, they would not have agreed to that. They would not have signed that letter. The ethics expertise that is coming to CIHR is not supportive of this appointment.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
I just heard that, at the end of the day, the people who are sitting on the council today did support it, Dr. Rouleau. Is that what you said?
4:15 p.m.
Dean, Faculty of Medecine, Université de Montréal
Yes. I guess he's the chair, Harvey. He did support it and did sign the letter in support—