Health Committee on May 9th, 2018

[Jim Goetz]

Well, they are definitely there.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Okay.

Let's go on to the sign put out by the bar, with the copyright of Red Bull: “Red Bull pub crawl”. There is nothing else that can mean.

[Jim Goetz]

I can't speak to that, because I don't know what jurisdiction that picture was taken in. There are rules and regulations in place in Canada, which we follow, and other jurisdictions have different regulations, so I can't speak to that.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

This was in Niagara Falls.

[Jim Goetz]

Health Canada has deemed, through their risk assessment process, that energy drinks are safe for consumption for adults, and in fact they—

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

No doubt. I'm not talking about the product. I agree. I went to university in the 1980s when they introduced Jolt Cola, which—I know I'm dating myself—was marketed as having twice the caffeine. You couldn't get it in bars after exam time, because it was all used up. We all drank it while studying for exams.

What I'm talking about is the way the brand is promoted, not how safe the product is. Would you support these companies' banning the use of their promotional materials and their trademarks for products that obviously have clear associations with the use of alcohol in licensed establishments, materials such as the standing tables and the sign with the “Red Bull pub crawl”? Will you support the industry in saying we will not allow our trademarks to be used for such activities?

[Jim Goetz]

As far as the marketing of our products in legal establishments where we are legally allowed to sell our products is concerned, no, I would not.

Potato chips are sold in bars, and other cola products, which are all deemed safe by Health Canada, as are caffeinated energy drinks. We are able to sell our products like any other—

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I'm not talking about where you sell it, but I'm saying, for instance, that I've never seen a poster saying “Pepsi pub crawl”.

[Jim Goetz]

Again, I can't speak to that because I haven't seen it. I'd love to follow up with you on that afterwards.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Sure. I have the poster. Let me show it to you.

[Jim Goetz]

As for the answer to your question about agreeing to remove our products, even the promotional items like the bar fridges behind the bar, no. Our products are allowed to be sold in establishments that sell beverages of all kinds.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I know. I understand. I don't want to belabour the point any more, because it's not about where you sell it. I agree you should sell it in bars, the same way you should be able to sell Coke or Pepsi or chips, for that matter. I'm talking about the promotion and advertising, because we know that promotion and advertising will make an association with products. We know advertising works. Vodka and Red Bull have been around for a long time.

Interestingly enough, I never went to a bar and saw people ordering Jolt and vodka—at least, I never saw signs with it.

[Jim Goetz]

I'd also point out that in bars there is an age limit on who can buy alcohol.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I know, but it's the promotion thereof. People in public can see these posters, even if it's only being consumed by adults—

[Jim Goetz]

Alcohol companies can advertise in bars as well.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Of course. All right, thank you.

I don't know if any of our colleagues from Quebec can answer this question. I'm just changing channels on this one.

On our last testimony, would you agree that there were some laws and regulations in place at the time of this tragic incident that just weren't followed? Are you aware of any of those? I believe there were some laws regarding either advertising or signage or access that were not followed. A witness from Quebec—if someone could refresh my memory—suggested that if they had been followed, there were a couple of places in the legislation that might have prevented this death. Is anyone aware of this?

[Manon Niquette]

As I explained, the federal government has legislation, a regulation, or code, the CRTC code, but this only applies to radio and television. The provinces have regulations. I believe that British Columbia applies the CRTC code to all forms of advertising. In Quebec, the Régie des alcools, des courses et des jeux has come up with its own regulations.

This begs the question of why the Internet and social media have not been monitored. This is a very important question, but I already know what the industry will say. Advertising can be placed on a Facebook page in French. The Geloso Group, which made the FCKDUP and Poppers drinks, has a number of Facebook pages. However, it is very easy to claim that they are not intended for just Quebeckers, but for all French Canadians. Do you see?

That is why it is important that we adopt clear federal legislation for social media, as Norway and France did in 2012.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

[Réal Morin]

If I may, I would like to add a comment about commercial and advertising practices at points of sale. Unethical practices have been observed many times. In some cases, ads were posted near a school, or it was claimed that the advertising was intended for adults but it clearly targeted children. In other cases, the practices sought to promote the sale, in bars, of alcohol mixed with so-called energy drinks.

To return to the exchange of comments with your other witness, the business practices do not concern only the producer or distributor of energy drinks. They also concern the bartender and the bar itself. We know that there is collusion, a practice whereby both types of beverages are sold at the same time. The whole environment promotes that. In my opinion, stating that these products are available in bars just so those who do not drink alcohol can consume something and enjoy the evening is questionable.

As you pointed out, the advertising is harmful. If you examine the business and advertising practices, you will note the way in which both adults and young people are positioned in the environment. It is not by chance that these products become appealing, even products that are dangerous when mixed together. This is the case when sugary and even non-alcoholic drinks are served, and alcohol is available. In the photos you showed us, you can see shelves where alcoholic and non-alcoholic products are displayed. People are encouraged to make their own mixes because they cannot be done at the factory.

[Manon Niquette]

May I add something in that regard?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

I'm sorry, but we have to end now. We're way beyond our time on this session.

Now, folks, I'm looking at the clock. We have to end our session of questions. We have to do drafting instructions for this bill, because the motion requires us to report it before June. We have to do the drafting instructions now so that staff can draft the report.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I have a motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

You have a motion?

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Yes, for the drafting of it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

We're going to drafting now, so I'm going to end the question period.