Health Committee on June 15th, 2022

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Are you telling me that the Quebec government asked you to establish national standards?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

We have an agreement for the declaration—

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like the minister to provide the committee with a document that confirms that the Government of Quebec has requested this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Madam Minister, MP Garon has time for one last question before his time runs out. Please allow him to ask it.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Madam Minister, can you provide us with a document confirming that the Quebec government has officially asked you to impose national health standards?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Yes, we have an agreement, and there is a statement from the provinces and territories for the—

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

I am talking about Quebec, Minister.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

This agreement addresses the common standards and priorities of all provinces.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

So you're telling me that Quebec has asked you to impose national standards and conditions on them? I'm not talking about the 10 provinces, I'm talking about Quebec.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Your time is up.

I will give the minister the opportunity to give a brief response without interruption.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

The statement on the shared priorities of all provinces and territories covers six areas, including primary health care and mental health services. Quebec is a leader in integrated service delivery.

It's truly exciting. I look to show you the leadership of Quebec on the integrated use strategy, which now has 11 out of 13 jurisdictions right there with this really exciting plan for the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

We'll go to Mr. Johns, please, for six minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

Before I get started, be really brief in your answers if you can, because I have a very short period of time here with you.

On June 1, the day after the announcement of a limited exemption to the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act for British Columbia, the Minister of Justice was reported to have said, “There isn't at this stage any larger discussion on decriminalization.”

My question is this: Why isn't this happening? It seems to be conflicting with what you're saying today, that you're open to the other applications that are coming.

What happens if a community like Dawson City applies? Are you going to support resources so that they can get an application in? What about a small, remote first nation in Saskatchewan, where they have an overdose crisis, for example?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I am willing to accept all applications. We need to see all of the kinds of criteria that were in there for B.C., like law enforcement training and increasing the health and social services, in order for it to be a successful application.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Minister, in 2020, 73% of the people who died of a toxic overdose died outside of B.C. The stigma of criminalization will continue to cost lives across the country.

Why isn't this conversation happening outside of British Columbia? What are you going to do for those small communities that don't have the resources to make a comprehensive application, like British Columbia?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I think you and I have had this conversation before.

We need the public safety criteria, as well as ramping up the health and social services, before we can begin that conversation. We have to know that the health and social services are there. We have to know that there won't be any unintended consequences in public safety, like gangs, organized crime and the things we have seen from not having a very strong implementation plan.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Minister, you had an expert task force on substance use. They were unanimous in saying that criminalizing people who use substances needs to end. They were unequivocal on that.

Are your government policies on this issue based on evidence or opinion polls?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

They're absolutely based on evidence, but also on the evidence we had from the frontline organizations that wanted to make sure that health and social services were ramped up. You cannot divert people from the criminal justice system to health and social services if they're not there.

Also—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Minister, they were unanimous. Your own expert task force was unanimous.

The evidence is clear that 27,000 people are dead. You don't need more evidence, Minister.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

We need an implementation plan, and that's what we're going to get. We have to have an implementation plan in order to be able to approve these.

I am very excited about the conversations I've had with that expert task force. People are excited that the big steel door's been cracked open, but it's going to be cracked open safely. We do not want to have what happened in Colorado.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Incrementalism in the government's response to substance abuse is what's killing people. People are dying.

I'm going to go to May 31. You said safe supply was the real antidote to the toxic drug crisis. What are you doing to scale up safe supply so that it's available to anyone at risk of drug poisoning in this country?

Minister, I asked your colleague, Minister Tassi, the Minister of Public Services and Procurement, if she's procuring any safer supply. Do you know what she told me? She said she's waiting for a request from the Minister of Health or yourself, and she hasn't gotten one. Why is that?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Gord, I think you know that's not how it works.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

That's how she told me it works.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

No, that's not how it works.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

The minister is on record at the committee of the whole, saying that she requires a request from yourself or the provinces. If the provinces request safer supply, will you provide them with a safer supply?