Evidence of meeting #27 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was million.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB
The unanimous consent motion and the promise you made in your platform wasn't to watch very carefully what happens in the U.S. It was to establish a three-digit suicide prevention hotline. It's been 550 days. How many more days do you need?
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Be very brief, Minister. He wants to split his time, and he's at the halfway mark.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Mike, we're not waiting for the CRTC. We're not waiting for anything. We are working every day on building the capacity to make sure that when we push “start”, there will be the capacity to answer this, from coast to coast to coast.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you, Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Lake. If you still want to split your time, you're past it.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair. My questions will be through you to the minister.
Minister, can you tell us which country is the biggest threat to Canada with respect to importing fentanyl?
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
My evidence is that a lot of the fentanyl is being made here now.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Well, that's probably not what experts would say. That being said, it's coming from China. That's a very important thing. Maybe I'll come back to it.
Do you know the usual dose of fentanyl in medical procedures? I understand you're a physician, but perhaps have not been practising for a while. If you don't know it, that's okay. No? With fentanyl, it's 100 micrograms.
As well, how many people would 2.5 grams of fentanyl be enough to treat?
I'll give you the math, just so we can move through this. It's 25,000 people. We're allowing people to possess enough fentanyl for medical treatment doses for 25,000 people.
How much Narcan do we expect the police to actually carry around? Are they going to fill paddy wagons full of Narcan doses? It's nonsensical. How could we possibly say that 25,000 medical doses of fentanyl is an appropriate amount?
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Doctor, I think you know that what is on the street is not pure fentanyl. It's been cut with all kinds of other things. That is the reason it's so deadly now.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
It's filled with benzodiazepines. It's filled with all kinds of things that Narcan doesn't even touch.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Okay, if we say 10,000 doses, is that appropriate?
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Doctor, I think the fact that we have all of the law enforcement agencies on side with this, as well as public health, means that we are beginning by beginning. We're going to start by starting.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
As you know, the original B.C. application was 4.5 grams. The Vancouver approach had different amounts for different drugs. The police have asked us to have a cumulative amount, because it's much easier to enforce.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
I have one more question.
Interestingly enough, could you please table the documents that really justify the 2.5 grams of fentanyl, please, Minister, for this committee?
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
That's not what I asked, ma'am. Could you please table the documents?
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
I'm going to tell you that I can table documents that show that—
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS
No—that justify the 2.5 grams of fentanyl, the 25,000 treatment doses.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
You're past time, Dr. Ellis. Please let her answer and then we're going to move on.
Go ahead, Minister.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
We approved 2.5 grams, cumulative, of whatever a person is carrying. As you know, there are many people using drugs who would use that. We are also getting criticism from the people using drugs that it's not enough in terms of what their daily dose would be of the street version of it.