Health Committee on June 15th, 2022

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Minister, on May 31 you said in a statement, “Together we will end this tragic crisis...so that no more families, friends or communities will lose a loved one to a heartbreaking overdose.” Do you believe your government has a credible plan to end the thousands of deaths we're seeing across this country each year?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I believe that we now, with the Canada drug strategy, are working very hard on the prevention, on the treatment, on the harm reduction and on law enforcement, and that we are building towards that plan. We are doing it in partnership with the provinces and territories and with all the communities to do what they can on the ground, as well, and we respond to their needs, yes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Canadians need to see the plan. I want to know what your plan is to ensure that all Canadians dealing with substance-use disorders can access publicly funded, evidence-based treatment on demand.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Well, I think, as you know, Mr. Johns, one problem is that we need....

The conversation with the College of Family Physicians was very interesting. I did a training program that was only two years long. The College of Family Physicians is now considering a project, a residency program, that would be three or four years long. It wants the capacity across the country. It does not believe that family doctors coming out of training have comfort with mental illness, with addictions or with pain, so we need to increase those mental health human resources, including family doctors.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Yes, but we need a plan to do that. Other countries have actually had courage and have committed resources—like in Portugal, the Czech Republic, Switzerland and Germany. I could keep going on with the list. We don't have a plan. Where is the plan?

Anyway, Minister, I also want to know this. Some provinces reject the importance of harm reduction, and they won't seek an exemption to decriminalize, for example. Some communities in those provinces might. How will you ensure equitable treatment for people who use substances across this country?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

What happens in British Columbia, I believe, will be a very important model for the rest of the country. We will, hopefully, be able to demonstrate that it works, saves lives, and keeps communities safer.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Is it a trial group? Is B.C. in a trial group with the rest of the country? Is that what you're doing? Will people die at this pace?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

What we are doing is just as Mike said. We're building supportive housing. We're building all of the elements in partnership with the provinces and territories, but so many of the projects go straight to the municipalities, so that we can really save lives with the substance use and addictions program, with the mental health promotion, with innovation funds. We are really doing the proof of concept that provinces and territories can pick up and run with when it's shown that they work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Johns. Thank you, Minister.

Next is Ms. Goodridge, please, for five minutes.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister Bennett, for your testimony here today.

To just carry on along lines similar to the ones you've heard from some of my colleagues, I believe strongly that decriminalizing without having any appropriate access to treatment is akin to putting the cart before the horse. Mr. Johns talked about Portugal. In Portugal, effectively, drugs were still illegal; it just was no longer a felony. There was a very ample treatment space available.

What investments are you making to have more access to treatment in British Columbia, or are you hoping that we end up like Colorado, which has been an abject failure?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Again, as we move forward working with provinces and territories, certainly what we felt in British Columbia was that it was building up the health and social services to deal with the issue in a very appropriate way, as well as the harm reduction programs, prevention and the training of law enforcement. Those four prongs of drug policy, I think, are very important.

Treatment remains the purview of provinces and territories. We are helping them with that bilateral agreement in the $5 billion, which they get to spend on their priorities.

In the common statement on the priorities of the provinces and territories, substance use treatment was one of the priorities. Then we will have a national standard.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Minister. I know that treatment of substance use has definitely been a very large priority in the province I come from, Alberta. There have been large investments in treatment.

When you were making your comments earlier, you said that the reason you picked the 2.5 grams was that it was easier for law enforcement, and that Vancouver had asked to have a different amount, depending on the substance. Did you pick 2.5 grams not necessarily based on medical evidence, but instead based on ability to help law enforcement enforce?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

In working with both the public health experts and the public safety experts, we learned that 85% of the drugs that had been confiscated were in amounts of less than two grams. The people on the street were saying that some people there use three or four grams—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Yes, Minister, I very well understand. Was this a decision that was made based on medical evidence, or was this a decision based on people who are suffering from addictions telling you that they want more drugs?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

This decision was taken very carefully with both public health and public safety. In fact, the Canadian chiefs of police, the B.C. chiefs of police and the deputy commissioner of the RCMP have all said very positive things about this as being a good start.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Okay, but was this based on medical evidence?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

The medical evidence I heard, particularly the people dealing with or serving people who use drugs.... Some of those people were saying that people will use way more than this.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Okay, but is this based on medical evidence or was it based on hearsay and how people are using this?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I can promise you it wasn't based on hearsay. It was based on the dual responsibilities I had for mental health and public safety.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you.

I will cede the rest of my time to Mr. Lake.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thank you to my colleague, and thank you, Minister.

I'd like to use my time to move a motion, as follows: That the committee request the minister to table all documentation confirming that it has met its commitment to fund the Canada mental health transfer, as clearly outlined on page 75 of its 2021 election platform.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Lake. The motion is in order.

The debate is now on the motion.

Go ahead, Dr. Ellis.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Certainly, for my colleagues, realizing that this has been an exceedingly contentious issue with the minister here with us today and that there's an expectation by all Canadians who suffer from mental illness and really were looking for a significant funding transfer, and hoping for that—it is certainly supported by the Canadian Mental Health Association as well—I think that understanding where the $875 million is, in view of the approximately one-third of Canadians who identify as having mental health issues, would be a very appropriate topic to understand here on the health committee.

Since it would appear very clearly that the government has not fulfilled its obligation to provide this, not in one year, Mr. Chair, but now in two years, from my perspective, $875 million is missing—almost $1 billion, let's be honest—and committed, and is not being provided for the treatment of Canadians. We also know that their mental health has suffered even more significantly since the pandemic, and certainly ongoing since then, especially with the threat, perhaps, of future lockdowns that we hear about from the government on an almost daily basis. I think this is very germane to committee business. I certainly hope that my colleagues from the other parties will support this motion.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Dr. Ellis.

Mr. Johns, please.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Mr. Chair, could we get you to repeat and/or send us the motion?