Health Committee on Nov. 4th, 2025

[Helena Konanz, Conservative, Similkameen—South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Sure.

[Martin Johansen]

It's probably in the range of seven or eight, for sure.

You would think we would be able to attract physicians to come and work in our area, but one of the challenges we have there, again, is that we have so many unattached patients in our area that our hospital becomes a walk-in clinic. When you come to do a shift in the ER, you have an incredible number of people coming there for very minor things, with a few serious things sprinkled in among them. The shifts are long and hard. Lots of times physicians come there, and they say they will never be back.

Those are the things that are challenging us. It all stems from not having enough people attached to a family physician.

[Helena Konanz, Conservative, Similkameen—South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Yes. I should say that this is one of the most beautiful places in Canada. It's a high tourist area in South Okanagan.

The hospital is located less than 30 minutes from the border. We recently had several international medical school graduates, who are either Canadians trained abroad or immigrants approved to come to Canada because of their training. They told us that if moving to rural Canada is what it took to practise as a physician, they would do that, but there are bottlenecks and bureaucracy.

Given the challenges that you describe in recruiting physicians to places like the South Okanagan, does it frustrate you that according to the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada, there are at least 13,000 internationally trained doctors currently in Canada, including many Canadians, who are not allowed to work as doctors?

[Martin Johansen]

That's really low-hanging fruit. With people who are already living in Canada, we don't have to deal with the immigration process; we just have to get their credentials verified and get them working.

I know that B.C. has a $5-million marketing program that is looking at attracting physicians from outside of our country as well. Some of the problems there.... What I'm hearing from having discussions with the Minister of Health for the province is that the biggest barrier to recruiting doctors from across the border isn't licensing; it's getting a work permit and going through immigration. We have doctors who are in the country, and we can't get them working. We have doctors outside the country who are facing some barriers as well. It's already been talked about today that one of the repetitive and time-consuming barriers is the labour market impact assessment, which requires employers to prove the vacancy needs to be filled by a foreign worker.

I know I've gone a bit off topic here talking about physicians coming in from outside the province, but there's a simple fix or an opportunity there. When you consider that our health care is in crisis, maybe there could be an exemption there.

[Helena Konanz, Conservative, Similkameen—South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

That's an excellent viewpoint, for sure. I know you're on the ground seeing this and have good insight into how to solve this issue. It's very complicated, but according to Health Canada, when you factor in nurses and specialists, there are 80,000 health professionals who live here but can't work in our health care system.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have one minute.

[Helena Konanz, Conservative, Similkameen—South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I know that MP Bailey has a question he'd like to ask, so I'll cede the final minute to MP Bailey.

Thank you.

[Burton Bailey, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Mayor Johansen, British Columbia relies heavily on locums from other provinces. Would you support national licensure to make it easy for travelling doctors, especially specialists? We had one gentleman here on the panel who carries six licences and goes around Canada as a travelling locum troubleshooting these closures so that emergency rooms can remain open.

[Martin Johansen]

I would support that 100%. As I said before, about 40% of the resources that keep our hospital open and working in our community come from outside of our community. One of the biggest barriers to retention is the workload that's associated with a rural community, so locum support is a huge requirement and a huge need and something we are sorely lacking.

[Burton Bailey, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Ms. Hall—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have eight seconds.

[Burton Bailey, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

I'd like to thank you for joining us today and taking my questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Burton.

We will go to Mr. Hanley for five minutes for the Liberals.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you very much to both of you. It's a pleasure to listen to your testimony and to have an opportunity to participate in this study. I'm not a regular member of this committee, but it's kind of like coming home because I was, in the last term, part of this committee.

Ms. Hall, there are 25,000 vacant positions, and you talked about the importance of the role of temporary foreign workers in helping to fill the gap but also having to compete with many other sectors.

In general, how attractive would you say this work is? You're speaking from a national level, but what are the incentives within the work to maintain retention?

[Jodi Hall]

From a personal point of view, this is an extremely attractive area of work. I find it deeply meaningful and purposeful. I think that attracts a certain cohort of health care providers who are interested in that long-term relationship building with the residents of the homes.

With that, there are distinct challenges when it comes to working with shortages. Homes do everything they can to avoid those, because it can be incredibly challenging to meet the needs of residents when there is a shortage of staff. As I noted earlier, that's often where we see short-term solutions through agencies being taken up. There is a lot of energy that goes into dealing with competition and trying to ensure we're providing the best workplace possible, providing mental health supports to ensure retention and doing a lot of engagement with frontline staff to help them feel connected and help them feel that their role really matters. Those are all strategic decisions and efforts that are made.

Looking at the immigration opportunities, long-term care employers are playing a large role in the settlement of many newcomers into the workforce in a way that helps them feel connected and supported and ultimately supports their retention of employment in the home as well.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

Mayor Johansen, thanks for being here.

I have a couple of minutes left.

How long have you been the mayor of Oliver?

[Martin Johansen]

I've been mayor since 2018.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

When you became mayor, did you expect to have a role in health care recruitment as part of your position as mayor?

[Martin Johansen]

There was a small role, mainly liaising with Interior Health. We didn't have any closures. Then COVID happened and everything changed. The world changed after COVID, and it's continuing to evolve. The mental health issues and the work burnout are really driving some of the problems that we're seeing here.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

In addition to that, certainly the pandemic appeared to accelerate a phenomenon that was already happening as we were entering into a health workforce crisis. We addressed this in this committee with many recommendations in 2022 and recommendations in 2023 in a detailed government response.

It's budget day today, budget 2025. We know that one of the already announced items is $97 million for a foreign credential recognition action plan, working with provinces and territories to improve the fairness, transparency and timeliness of foreign credential recognition. Do you think this is a move in the right direction?

[Martin Johansen]

Yes, 100%. The process to get into Canada—or, if you're living in Canada, to get your credentials verified—is incredibly complex and complicated. I think putting more resources into that, to be able to identify a process and maybe have people who can guide people through the process, will pay out benefits in the long run.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Oliver is something of a retirement community. People still move to Oliver, or at least stay in Oliver, as a retirement community. Is that right? Would that be a potential factor in health care needs in your community?

[Martin Johansen]

Yes, it is a retirement community. Of course, the health care needs associated with people who are aging are more complex. It requires many more visits by a patient to a family physician. Yes, 100%, the health care needs in our community are probably higher than those in a community with a younger population.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

That brings an end to this hour.

I'm going to suspend so that we can get the next hour going.