Evidence of meeting #62 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
Ladies and gentlemen, I call the meeting to order.
Ladies and gentlemen, I apologize for being a bit late. I just received a letter from Monsieur Mayrand regarding our motion of yesterday. I will read the letter into the record, and then I suggest that we just deal with it. I think it's fairly straightforward.
Yes, sir.
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, should we not start with the reason for our original meeting, which is your decision on the request by the four members?
Four members requested a special meeting and you postponed it from yesterday to today because you said that in order to render a decision today you needed some time to take the representations into consideration. Would it not be quite normal that at today's meeting we first of all get to the bottom of that matter, Mr. Chairman?
3:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
I understand that. I don't want to interrupt, but I just don't want to go around in circles here and have a debate that carries on longer than dealing with this issue will take. So if there is an urgent matter with the order of business, then let's open it up for debate, and we'll take a couple of hours to deal with that. I've chosen to deal with this issue, and if there's an objection to that, let's hear it. We'll deal with both today. Neither is simple.
Do you have an objection regarding the order?
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
3:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
This is pending business. I was asked to get a response from Mr. Mayrand. I phoned his office early this morning. I've done everything the committee asked, and now you're telling me that it wasn't that urgent.
3:35 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
On the same point of order, clearly the Liberals among us do not want to discuss this issue. Their leader has flip-flopped on the matter, and they do not want to bring it forward for discussion. But this is urgent, because we do have byelections coming this Monday that this matter will affect. I don't know why the Liberals would want to avoid discussion on it, giving us the chance to ascertain what in fact has been said by the Chief Electoral Officer.
Let's get to it; we're all anxious to hear. Let's get started. I don't know why the Liberal members are trying to block progress on this committee.
3:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
Thank you.
Mr. Dewar, then Michel Guimond, and then Madam Redman.
3:35 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
To help move things along, Chair, I'm wondering whether we could just give the letter to members and move on to the other item. Is that helpful? Then everyone will have the letter and you will have done due diligence, and we can move on and get to the other piece of business.
3:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
I can certainly do that. I have only one copy because it just came in one minute ago, so I was going to read it. While it's being photocopied, we could make some efficient use of that time.
Monsieur Guimond.
3:35 p.m.
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
I would like to suggest the same thing as my NDP colleague. Moreover, on the topic of the committee's effectiveness, I would like to add that certain things tend to be remembered, to leave marks. I don't mean to make threats, but the fact remains that we are going to have to work together.
As for the stalling tactics to prevent this meeting from moving forward, a meeting that had been convened right from the outset, they are counterproductive, in my opinion. Nevertheless, I would like to know what Mr. Mayrand wrote to you. I suggest that you read the letter to the members of the committee, that it be photocopied and that we move promptly to discussing the issue which led to our being convened here, as well as your decision. We did not meet this morning at 9 a.m. because you were only able to hand down your decision at 3:30 p.m.
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would certainly agree with my colleagues who have just spoken. I guess I would point out to my friend on the Conservative side that I don't think anybody around this table, let alone any party, has ever said they don't want to deal with this issue or that this isn't an important issue. However, I would point out that I do believe Monsieur Proulx actually had a motion on the table before things got somewhat derailed yesterday. It would seem to me that you had asked for 24 hours, which is certainly within your right , and I would tell you, we acknowledge that, and if you have received clarification on some of the points of order that were raised--because we have a motion on the table, because this meeting, called under a specific section of the Standing Orders, was called by four members--perhaps we should follow along the suggestion to photocopy and distribute the letter, and let us deal with your ruling on the whole reason this meeting was actually convened in the first place.
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
Actually, I am going to respond to the issues. There are two issues before me. Number one, printing closes at four o'clock. Number two, there is technically, according to the clerks, no motion on the floor. So this is why this is far more complicated, and we probably could have dealt with this issue by now, but--
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
Joe Preston Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, there is a motion on the floor, and it's about this very issue. This committee yesterday voted unanimously to deal with this issue, and Mr. Mayrand's answer, so I would suggest that you go forward and read the letter. We've already taken up more time than it would have taken you to read the letter.
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, if you want to check the blues--
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Yes, thank you. If you check the blues, you will see that prior to Mr. Reid's 30-minute point of order yesterday, you had accepted my motion that we deal with, to start with in the meeting, the question of the request by the four members. Once Mr. Reid had done his 30-minute point of order, you decided--and I'm not questioning that, Mr. Chair--that you were going to take it into consideration until today. Then the committee started working on Mr. Preston's motion.
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
Order. I'm going to take a minute to clarify this with the clerk.
Colleagues, it would appear from reading the blues that it was not a motion that had been tabled; it was to start work yesterday with respect to yesterday's meeting.
Again, it doesn't really matter to me. I find it intriguing that the committee would actually take 10 to 15 minutes to decide what to start with when one of the matters would likely not take that much time. Since the committee is choosing to debate inefficiently, at the dismay of the chair, I would ask committee members if they would be willing to call the question as to whether I read this report from Mr. Mayrand and deal with it or we go to the second piece, at which time I will ask, just to make sure the clerks are all happy, that the motion by the four members be put forth and tabled so that it's technically a motion, and then we'll deal with it.
Are we ready for a question?
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
I didn't see your hand. I'm sorry, Mr. Reid. Did you have a comment on this issue? Please go first.
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
Yes, I think the concern from this side of the table is simply this. We don't want to see the matters dealing with veils, the matters dealing with Mr. Mayrand, pushed aside. We are just making sure that they are not lost in this meeting or fall off the table and that we never get the chance--we don't know what the content of his letter is--to summon him and start that process because we get absorbed entirely with the other piece of business. I just want to make sure that both of the issues are dealt with today.
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
Of course, the chair has considered all of that and has decided that this is the order to proceed in most efficiently. However, I will yield to the committee. Most efficiently, it would be best, I feel, to deal with this matter first. However, I am yielding to the committee.
Although maybe I'm not technically supposed to make a motion, I'm asking the committee to agree that I simply read this letter out and get it off to printing so that all members can have a copy of it to look at, perhaps, as we discuss the other matter, and to make decisions as to the outcome and as to how they want to proceed with this matter, so that at the end of this meeting we can actually come back to it and make a decision as to when we'll meet on this matter.
Mr. Proulx.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Am I to understand that you would read the letter, there would be no debate at this time, you would send it off for photocopying, and we would immediately deal with the other subject?