Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Sept. 13th, 2007

[Farzana Hassan, President, Muslim Canadian Congress]

My name is Farzana Hassan. I'm the current president of the Muslim Canadian Congress.

The Muslim Canadian Congress is opposed to the burka or the niqab or the complete veiling of women in public spaces.

We are suggesting that the burka be banned, especially in the electoral process, in which openness and freedom need to be guaranteed. We need to ensure the integrity of the electoral process.

It is imperative that whoever is physically present in the electoral process should be able to identify themselves. It is not a requirement of Islam that Muslim women stay covered completely. They would be more than willing to lift their veils if that is the requirement.

I would also like to speak a bit about the social backdrop that allows the veil in public spaces. It's very difficult for Muslim women—

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

I'm sorry. There will be time for you to finish that. I appreciate it very much.

Again, I apologize for our time constraints.

Next, please.

[Sohail Raza, Communications Director, Muslim Canadian Congress]

My name is Sohail Raza. I'm the communications director of the Muslim Canadian Congress.

Mr. Chairman, post-9/11 analysts agree that there is a tiny minority among Muslims who hold extremist views. This tiny minority exerts pressures on the silent majority as far as religiosity is concerned and holds them hostage. Today Elections Canada is being held hostage by the same tiny minority in allowing the veil to be used as a tool of misinformation.

We in the Muslim Canadian Congress are opposed to the term “veiled Muslim women”. The veil is no part of Islam but a cultural part of certain countries for varied reasons.

While we are fighting the Taliban on the ground, why are you adopting their ideology at home?

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you very much.

Next, please.

[Raheel Raza, Journalist and Author, As an Individual]

Good morning, Mr. Chairman.

My name is Raheel Raza. I am president of the Forum For Learning, an author, and a journalist.

As I came here today, I discovered that since September 2007, photo ID is mandatory at all airports, even for domestic flights. Right here, before entering this building, we had to show photo ID. So showing the face is a very important form of identification.

You've already heard that covering the face is not a religious mandate in Islam; it is purely cultural. If it is cultural, the question I want to ask is, how many cultures is Elections Canada going to accommodate? There are over fifty cultures living here in Canada. This is going to become a can of worms in the next ten years.

Secondly, by using the terms “Muslim women” and “the veil”, Elections Canada is inferring that women who wear the veil are modest and those who do not aren't. Therefore, I have an issue with using terms such as Muslim women and the veil.

They can decide who can and cannot vote. But if Elections Canada mandates that people with their faces covered can vote, then perhaps it's time to wake up and smell the coffee, and think about changing the legislation for the security of this country, because in a post-9/11 world, the most important thing we have to worry about is the security and public safety of all Canadians.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you very much.

Salim.

[Salim Mansur, Professor of Political Science, University of Western Ontario, As an Individual]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee.

My name is Salim Mansur and I am from the University of Western Ontario. I represent no one but myself. I was invited late yesterday afternoon, and on very short notice I came here.

The thoughts and sentiments expressed by the speakers before me are pretty much my own. I very much share their views on this matter. I hope we will be able to discuss it on the open floor.

My concern is that the integrity of our electoral system, the heart of our democracy, be protected. I would say that any smidgen of doubt, real or imagined, created in the minds of the electorate that our system could be abused, or is open to abuse, is edging closer to a slippery slope.

Any exception made in this instance on whatever grounds to accommodate, as a display of tolerance or sensitivity to faith-based demands, would set a precedent for future demands, and drip by drip it would render our electoral system vulnerable to abuse.

We have minimal conditions to be met by voters, and those conditions are pretty clearly laid out.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you very much.

Salah.

[Salah Basalamah, Member, Présence musulmane Montréal]

My name is Salah Basalamah and I am here on behalf of Présence musulmane.

Generally speaking, we are not in favour of people wearing the niqab this custom is not rooted in any religious beliefs, but rather reflects a cultural tradition. However, like any democratic person who is respectful of others, we defend a woman's right to wear the niqab. In fact, Muslims who wear the niqab never refuse to comply with legal requirements, whether it be in a voting booth or at a border crossing point, because these are exceptional circumstances and by failing to comply with the law, then run the risk of being charged with an offence.

However, we would like the legislation to remain in effect for four reasons: firstly, because the range of identification measures reflects the State's determination to have the broadest possible cross-section of the population take part in the electoral process; secondly, because applying the provisions of the act enables thousands of individuals to vote by mail without having to identify themselves, and it would be unfortunate to lose that right; thirdly, no Muslim has asked for this special accommodation to be made; and fourthly, because calls for changes to the act are not being made for the right reasons. The psychosocial context in which the debate on reasonable accommodations is unfolding is overly focused on the issue of Muslim women and the wearing of a veil for an exception to be made in the case of the more radical niqab.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you.

Monsieur Côté.

[Pierre F. Côté, Former Chief Electoral Officer, Élections Québec]

My name is Pierre F. Côté and for 19 years, I served as Quebec's Chief Electoral Office. I am now retired.

The issue of voter identification first surfaced in Quebec about ten years ago. Further to a proposal that I made to legislators, it was decided that passports, health insurance cards and drivers' licence would be considered acceptable photo identification. Thus, voters can be correctly identified and mainly this prevents cases of people voting for someone else.

During last March's elections, Quebec's Chief Electoral Officer invoked section 490 of the Quebec Elections Act—the equivalent of section 17 of the Canada Elections Acts—to prohibit individuals from voting if their face was covered. He invoked this provision once again in conjunction with the by-election in Charlevoix.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Merci.

Next please.

[David Harris, Senior Fellow for National Security, Canadian Coalition for Democracies]

My name is David Harris. I'm senior fellow for national security.

On behalf of the Canadian Coalition for Democracies, I would like to thank you for this opportunity to address the committee.

People have covered a good many subjects in this important area. I'm going to confine myself to one very important one that I think is derivative of the rest.

A number of blithe statements have been made about how it might not be appropriate for people fully veiled to appear in polling stations, and so on. That is essentially the position of the Canadian Coalition for Democracies. However, these statements also go on to assume that it is appropriate in some way for females only to be qualified, as government officials, to screen those women wearing veils.

This would, in our view, enlist the government's machinery and its personnel in legitimizing, advancing, and enforcing a sharia-type gender apartheid sensibility and standard. It would be an assault on principles of gender equality, according to our Constitution. It would ban male electoral officials solely on the basis of their gender from performing lawful functions of voter identification, and the implications would proceed from there. Government, its machinery, and people would be required to, in some form, shape themselves to gender apartheid sharia standards.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you very much.

Colleagues, we will begin our first round of questioning. Again, it is a seven-minute round. If we could stay focused on the topic, that would be helpful. We have a number of witnesses. It might be helpful if we focused on one or two witnesses rather than comments from all, because that would go over your individual time. However, I leave that up to members to make their own choices.

Monsieur Proulx, you are up first, seven minutes, please, then Mr. Reid, and then Madame Faille.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you.

I understand, Mr. Chair, that our first seven minutes will be shared with two of my colleagues, if we may.

Good day, ladies and gentlemen.

I have a question for you, Mr. Côté. I understand that you made certain recommendations. I also understand that passports, health insurance cards and drivers' licences all have photo identification.

Are the provisions of Quebec's Elections Act as broad as those of the Canada Elections Act? For example, if an individual arrives at a polling station without a passport, a health insurance card or a driver's licence, is there some way that this person could vote without photo ID?

[Pierre F. Côté]

Yes. Pursuant to the Quebec Elections Act, a voter identification verification table is located at the entrance to the polling station, to assist persons who may not have the necessary pieces of identification. The person must be accompanied by someone who can vouch for the fact that this person is indeed who he or she claims to be, that is the person who name appears on the voters' list.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I assume that the person willing to vouch for the other person must have proper photo ID.

[Pierre F. Côté]

I believe so, but I'm not absolutely certain.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Côté, I'm aware of the decisions that were made in Quebec. However, could a veiled woman have a third party vouch for her identify and for the fact that she is indeed the person whose name appears on the voters' list? Even though Quebec's Chief Electoral Officer does not allow that, could this be permitted under the law?

[Pierre F. Côté]

I believe so, but Quebec's Chief Electoral Officer felt that given the controversial nature of this matter, it would be more appropriate for him to take a very clear stand.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Côté. I hope you enjoy your retirement.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Monsieur Patry.

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you very much.

Thank you to all of our witnesses. You are all members of civil society and your presence here this morning is very important. The real goal here is to ensure the integrity of the electoral system.

My colleague mentioned health insurance card, passport and driver's licence photographs. Let me relate an amusing story. A year ago, I was on hand for the swearing in of some new Canadian citizens. One of the women in attendance was wearing a niqab. The judge, acting in a very professional manner, simply told her that he could not swear her in as a Canadian citizen because he could not see her face. He then gave her thirty seconds to decide whether or not to become a Canadian citizen. The woman turned to her husband, who nodded his head. She then proceeded to lift her veil.

I, along with all of the political parties represented here this morning, agree on the importance of the identification process.

Are there groups in the country—you talked about pressures coming from a minority—who are pressuring you for changes to be made? Who are these groups?

My riding is home to three mosques where members do not wear the niqab. It seems that there are only between 10 and 18 individuals who do so in the entire province of Quebec.

Are some groups lobbying for the current act not to be amended, or for having all prospective voters uncover their face at the polling station? Do you know of any such groups?

[Raheel Raza]

I understand that across Canada there are only about 300 women who actually cover their faces. While they may not be pushing it, I'd like to mention, in response to what you said, that Morocco has been mentioned, but in an Islamic country like Iran all women have to show their faces before they can cast ballots. So that's something to keep in mind as well.

Women themselves may not be pushing to vote with their faces covered, but certainly there are other organizations that are speaking for them and making this an issue. So the matter of Muslim women and the veil is something that needs to come up. If Elections Canada had a mandate that all Canadians needed to show their faces to vote, one could understand this. But the fact that it has come up with regard to all Muslim women and the veil impacts me directly, and this is why I am here to present my position.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you.

Mr. Godfrey, you have two minutes.