Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 13th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Ladies and gentlemen, let's call the meeting to order.

Welcome back. I hope everybody had a productive and good weekend of remembrance.

Colleagues, I want to remind members that we are in the larger room today because members did feel we would need to room for staff and so on with respect to the carrying on of the Liberal motion for study.

I want to bring to the attention of the members that it is the usual practice of this committee to have our meetings in public; however, today's meeting is not being televised. Just so that you know, we can make a change if the committee sees fit to do that, but right now I want to let you know that the meeting today is in public but is not being televised.

We do have some legislation before the committee today. Bill C-16 has been referred to the committee. Members, I wish to remind you that Bill C-16 is the former Bill C-55 from last session. So we have that with us today. Documents regarding that are being distributed now.

I believe we should move to looking at Bill C-16 first. Perhaps we can entertain whether we debate that now, go to the witness lists, or whatever the committee wishes to do.

Madam Redman.

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

One of the things I hear time and time again from people in my riding is that they are very distressed with the behaviour of the House--all parties guilty, I might add--during question period, so I would question why at this juncture, when we have the ability to televise, we're not showing Canadians that we can work cooperatively and that we are substantively doing the business that parliamentarians were sent here to do.

So I would like to visit that first of all. I see no reason why this shouldn't be televised.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Okay. Are there any other opinions on that?

It was my decision last week, knowing that we were going to move to Bill C-16 versus the original reason of dealing with the Liberal motion, which was the reason we chose a bigger room and televised it. Given that we have legislation, it was decided that we'd stay in public and keep this room. I decided pretty much based on the costs of doing the televising, but I'm completely open to changing that. It was a judgment call on my part, given that we would be moving to legislation, but I'm completely open to making a change.

Are there any other comments on that? Are there any objections to televising?

Madam Redman, please.

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

That being said, I have no problem with continuing on and becoming televised at whatever point that seems reasonable.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Is that okay with members of the committee?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Then it is so ordered. I'll advise the clerk to make arrangements to televise this committee as soon as we possibly can, and we will move forward, then, with that.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I have a point of order. I guess it counts as a point of order. I'm just trying to find out whether we are then going to basically come on camera at some point during these proceedings, partway through, whenever they can get the cameras set up. Is that how it works?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

I assume I'll get notice that they're ready to go televised and I'll instruct the committee that we will be televising within a couple of seconds.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

I should remind members that we are on the Internet, by the way. We're being streamed out, as we always are when we are in a public meeting. But we'll get the cameras up and running as soon as possible, and I will be told when that will happen. I will give members forewarning that we will be televised in so many minutes or so many seconds.

Do all members have Bill C-16 in front of them? Okay. I think the usual procedure is that we would begin debate on Bill C-16. I will open the meeting for any discussions with respect to that bill, including call for witness lists, or whatever the committee decides to do.

I'm assuming the committee wishes to proceed in that way. Are there any other instructions?

Madam Redman, please.

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Just for clarification, though, at the end of the last meeting you asked that we end the meeting early, and Mr. Epp and I were on the speakers list for the other issue at hand. So we are today receiving the briefing book for Bill C-16 as well as the bill itself.

I would tell you that we are very interested in moving forward with this bill. I see no reason why we couldn't do both issues, probably concurrently. I would say that we're all aware of a piece of legislation that we're waiting to hear back on, and that is the voter ID. That was a piece of legislation that went through this committee and indeed did go through the Senate and ended up having very extreme, unintended consequences. Because of that, one of the concerns we had in the incarnation of Bill C-55 when this bill was before us before the session prorogued was the fact that there really hadn't been consultation or studies done on this bill, although it was the view of the government that it would increase voter participation. Because of that, I think it's absolutely essential that we do due diligence, again not holding this bill up in any way. I think this is an important bill and should receive active, intelligent, and informed discussion.

I would ask that Elections Canada be asked to appear before us to find out if there are any things they have concerns with or what their view would be, as well as some kind of expert that deals with electoral reform. I would put forward Professor Ned Franks, as well as David Docherty from Wilfrid Laurier University. I know those two individuals are well informed and make it their life's work to study these kinds of issues. So in order that we make sure this bill does what it purports to do and doesn't do something we're not aware of, I think it's absolutely fundamental that we hear those witnesses before we move forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you.

Madam Redman is absolutely correct to remind members that Bill C-16 is in front of us today.

We have Bill C-6, which received first reading October 26, 2007. That is the act to amend the Canada Elections Act regarding visual identification of voters. Bill C-16 is expanded voter opportunities, which is before us today, and our clerk is definitely writing down witness suggestions for the bill. I suspect this is the way the committee wants to proceed, with just a brief discussion about how we're going to go about studying Bill C-16.

I wasn't sure whose hand was up first over there. I'm going to go with Mr. Lukiwski, then Mr. Reid, please.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Quickly on a point of clarification, Chair, am I to understand that right now we're submitting potential witnesses for Bill C-16? Is that what we're doing?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

I believe the committee has indicated to me that they want to briefly begin studying Bill C-16 and how we are going to go about doing that. The suggestion has been that we bring in witnesses, which of course is the way we should do that. We can start discussing the bill as well today, Mr. Lukiwski, but right now we're writing down names of potential witnesses.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

So you're just asking for witnesses today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Yes.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Mr. Reid, please.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

There's one thing I had thought of bringing up on a point of order, and maybe it's just my own advanced age, but I'm finding it very hard to hear in here, for some reason. Normally the room has excellent acoustics, but there's something odd. I've had a bit of difficulty hearing, an echo or something. Seeing as you have the technical people looking at bringing on the cameras, they could also look at whatever is going on with the sound that's a little different from the usual.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Just to stay with that point for a moment, I'm noticing an echo as well. Is anybody having difficulty hearing? Perhaps a couple of folks. All right, we will have the technicians see if they can deal with the sound problem.

Thank you, Mr. Reid.

Mr. Lukiwski.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Again, back to my initial point, since we're collecting witnesses' names, if we had a witness list for you within the hour, would that be sufficient, or are you trying to get them right now?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

The sooner you can get it to us the better, but I am seeing a no from another member, that this is too soon for a witness list. Okay, let's see how folks are coming up with witnesses--

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Chair, I'm sorry, when is the deadline for witnesses to be submitted?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Well, I'm going to say, at this point in time, as soon as possible. I will give a time limit on it once I hear from other members.

Monsieur Guimond and then Monsieur Godin.