Evidence of meeting #25 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was limit.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Do you have the final tally as to what the pro and the con each spent on the campaign?
12:40 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections BC
We don't have that yet. It's being pulled together now. It should be out in a few months. There'll be a report on the referendum coming out of my office.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
I'm sure we'll receive a copy of that.
Is there no limit to the contributions one can make to a referendum campaign?
12:40 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections BC
In the 2009 context, you could make a donation to the proponent or opponent groups, which is where most of the activity was happening, or you could fund a registered referendum advertiser. There were no limits, but there was disclosure after the fact of anybody who provided more than $250 to an advertiser, and the advertisers had to divulge how they spent their money after the referendum was over. The deadline on that was in August, and again, that'll be part of our reporting.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
12:40 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections BC
The election advertising and contributions to parties and candidates are tax deductible, but election advertising and referendum advertising are not.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank you, Mr. Neufeld, for the very clear presentation you gave us.
I would like to follow up on three things.
First, I think you indicated that the Referendum Act in B.C. is about a two- or three-page document, but then you develop legislation that's specific to each referendum.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
I was wondering if it would help us get away from a book this thick in terms of the Canadian scene if we were to apply regulations specific to each referendum.
You also mentioned the different dollar amounts: $23 million in 2005 compared to $1 million for the referendum--and I'm sure we could argue as to whether or not some of that could have gone either way--and then $36 million to $2 million. Do you think, based on that experience, we could experience that kind of savings if we were to lump together a referendum and an election at the national level?
12:40 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections BC
I think the savings are considerable. I know it seems very low, and part of it is some of the accounting rules my office is under. All the preparation of procedures and guides and forms is done under my ongoing operating budget, so the event budget is for conducting the event itself. So for the additional costs for the referendum in conducting the event itself, there was a little bit more. The advertising might have a few more lines in it. It may not be any bigger. So is it an additional cost? Well, my accountants would say no, there's no additional cost there; you just spend some more money on the text.
We had all the election officials hired. We did hire extra accounting officials for advance voting, but advance voting has become so popular that we needed extras anyway, so we might have hired a few extras other than the extras we needed in any case.
So overall, when we added all the costs, it was only that incremental addition. It was incorporated into all our procedures; it was incorporated into the training. So the cost of actually delivering it wasn't really all that much more. Training manuals might have been a page or so longer, but--
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
I would have expected maybe a 25% or a 50% saving, but this looks as if you're in the 80% to 90% saving in terms of--
12:40 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections BC
I think it's something like 5% of the election costs. That's incredible.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
In each referendum you had the two different thresholds, one for the entire province and then one for the number of EDAs within the province, and a certain percentage of those needed to have the 60%. Would you recommend the two-stage threshold for national referendums as well?
12:40 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections BC
This was debated, and it's the same threshold that was used in P.E.I. and in Ontario for their electoral reform referendums.
The issue was that legislators felt it shouldn't be something that was decided by the urban core; it should have widespread support across the province, and it needed a so-called super-majority because it was such a significant shift in public policy with regard to how the democratic process worked and how representation was going to work in terms of translating votes into seats. So there has been lots of debate in British Columbia about whether that's appropriate. There were numerous suggestions that we've made far more important decisions in this country on the basis of 50% plus one vote and that's all we need.
So it's one of the things we leave to legislators to decide.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
I wasn't referring so much to the 60% as I was to the double threshold of the number of EDAs and the number of electors. I think that was a more significant change.
12:45 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections BC
I think every referendum question is going to be different, and it may be appropriate for some. I'm not sure it's something I'd say is a good call across the board.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
My questions follow very much from the line of questioning Mr. Albrecht was engaged in.
The two referendums were both connected to elections, is that correct?
12:45 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections BC
Yes, in conjunction with the 2005 election and the 2009 election.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
So the confusion on the part of voters not understanding that a referendum was coming the second time around cannot be because this was new to them, that they had experienced a stand-alone referendum and were now experiencing a referendum at the same time as an election.
12:45 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections BC
It was the second time with an election.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
Yes. It wasn't a novel experience for them the second time around.
