Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 17th, 2009

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

So there's no limit whatsoever as to the level of contributions to committees or third parties outside of Quebec. Then if we went to the committee function or system, unless we decided to amend that, and there was a highly politicized question out there, you could only contribute $1,100 to the party that represented your position but you could contribute, literally, $100,000 to a committee or a third party to allow them to advocate the same position as your political party of choice? Is that correct?

[Marc Mayrand]

That's what is currently the case under the third party regime, except that the third party regime has much lower spending limits, I should point out.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Yes. I just think there has to be some consideration given to that by this committee.

[Marc Mayrand]

Especially, as I mentioned, depending on where the committee goes with respect to having a concurrent event or not.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Yes. I'm an unabashed supporter of having concurrent referendums with the provincial or national elections just because of the cost savings there, but there seems to be quite a disconnect. As I say, in the situation I outlined, if you were restricted to $1,100 to give to your political party but you can give $100,000 to a third party that advocates exactly the same position as your political party of choice—

[Marc Mayrand]

And corporations and unions can contribute—

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

--and unions, and corporations, and everything, what are we really solving here, right?

That's all, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you very much.

Monsieur Guimond, the same thing, if possible.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

When the referendum was held with respect to the Charlottetown Accord in 1992, we know that the rest of Canada was governed by the legislation we are discussing. Nevertheless, the referendum was held in Quebec under the Quebec legislation. I do not recall which legal instrument was used to do this.

Did we simply have an administrative agreement? Was the legislation amended? I cannot remember what occurred.

[Marc Mayrand]

The federal Referendum Act has a provision for this possibility.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

In general terms, what does this provision say?

[Marc Mayrand]

This provision provides that the referendum can be held in one or more territories. When the referendum is held, the territories and the populations to be consulted are determined. So it is by government decree, by proclamation, that we determine where the referendum will be held.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

So that means that the Government of Quebec and the federal government probably came to an agreement to allow it to play out that way.

[Marc Mayrand]

I have to assume so, yes.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

The act provides for it. Indeed, my assistant is telling me that the provision is contained in subsection 6(1).

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Albrecht, you and Mr. Calandra are left.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be very brief.

Mr. Mayrand, you mentioned there were 241 committees in 1992. They potentially had a limit each of $18 million, plus or minus, and the actual expenditures were around $12 million for the entire yes and no sides.

Then later you mentioned that in a third party situation in an election, for each EDA there's a $3,000 limit. Is there, in fact, a limit for each EDA when it comes to a referendum? How does that work at the local level? Is it all done from the national level?

[Marc Mayrand]

Sorry, it's not for the EDA. It's for the third party.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

For the third party in the EDA, though.

[Marc Mayrand]

No. The limit is imposed on candidates and parties. So all expenditures have to flow through the candidates' campaign.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

So each third party has a limit of $3,000--

[Marc Mayrand]

Per district or riding where they want to be active.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Okay, I used the wrong term, then.

Is there a limit per riding when it comes to referendum?

[Marc Mayrand]

No. That's one point I made earlier. It's interesting. Under the Referendum Act now, the limit is determined by the intention of the committee. If they registered with the intention of operating across Canada, they would be entitled to the full limit. If they expressed the intention to operate only in their riding or a number of ridings, then it would be a different calculation. But I think it's based on the number of electors.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

And that's at 78¢ per elector.