Evidence of meeting #39 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was block.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
So it is not something that is new to you that you should not really divulge any in camera meeting discussion. Why did you do it? You know it; it's not that you are not familiar with the issue.
As an Individual
I understand after the fact the gravity of the error I made; however, my lapse of judgment at the time does not make up for the fact that I now understand how serious my actions were.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
That's fair enough, but you didn't make a spontaneous distribution. It didn't happen spontaneously. For example, you sent the report to Andy Gibbons, Clarke Cross, Lynn Hamilton at 8:37 a.m.; then you sent Mr. Mains a copy at 12:43 the same day. Why did you do that?
My second question is, why did you send the report to Mr. Egan at 5:00 p.m. that day? You made the mistake, you claim, at 8:37, 12:43, and then 5:00 p.m.
Give me the logic behind it, because it was not spontaneous; it looks as though you did it deliberately and as though there was a deliberate action that was thought through.
As an Individual
I've asked myself the same question. My actions were spontaneous when I was doing it. This was not premeditated. I was not thinking about the repercussions of my actions each and every time I was doing it.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Over an eight-hour period you didn't think about it? I mean, it took eight hours from the time you started the first distribution to the last, and you're saying that you did it without thinking.
As an Individual
I think my lapse of judgment also included not respecting the document itself, not necessarily the act of sending it.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
When you were with the minister, did you ever, when you had the secret clearance, distribute any confidential documents to any unauthorized person?
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Could that be proven? You have done it on a pre-budget consultation draft report, which will now have implications on what the minister is going to be doing. Are you telling us to believe you?
As an Individual
Mr. Chair, I'm asking the committee to believe me, yes, and to accept my apology in its sincerest form for my lack of clarity and rational action.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Ullyatt.
I would ask the same consideration you gave Ms. Ratansi. I'll try to keep my questions brief and ask for your cooperation, and brief and honest answers as well.
I want to reiterate before I begin my line of questioning, to recap, that you're stating under oath that you sent these e-mails, these leaked draft documents, as an attempt to curry favour with friends, and that Mrs. Block had absolutely no knowledge of your actions. Is that correct?
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
Has Mrs. Block ever implied or given you any suggestion whatsoever that she would look favourably upon your doing such a thing, or was this done completely in secret, in a furtive manner, without her knowledge?
As an Individual
The answer to the first part of your question, Mr. Lukiwski, is absolutely not. Mrs. Block would never imply, suggest, coerce, reward me for doing the types of actions that I alone committed.
And—I'm sorry—on the second part, I acted alone, in secret.
Conservative
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
I'm curious. Did you understand the severity of your actions when you were sending out these documents?
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
I find it remarkable that someone in your position, who had worked not only for Mrs. Block but for other MPs and ministers, wouldn't understand the severity of your actions. However, that being the case, I would have to assume that the lobbyists to whom you sent these documents were also aware that what you were doing was a serious breach of confidence.
Did any of the lobbyists contact you after you had sent the e-mails to say “Why are you doing this? Do you know this is wrong?” Did you hear from or did you communicate with the lobbyists at any time following the e-mails you sent to their attention?
As an Individual
I did not receive any e-mails or communication back from the lobbyists I sent it to indicating the intent that you just delivered: “Why did you send this to me?” or “Why have you done this?” I did not receive any communication like that.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
I'm confused. Did you not receive at least one e-mail from Mrs. Hamilton, saying, “I heart you”; in other words, “ I love you”?
As an Individual
Yes, that is correct, but it wasn't in relation to asking, “Why did you send this?” It wasn't in the negative.
