Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Dec. 14th, 2010

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

You said that these lobbyists were friends of yours. Thus I imagine that in the weeks preceding the leak, you must have met them. And when you met them, since they are people who appear to work in the fiscal domain, if we go by one of the titles, they certainly shared with you the concerns that they had about fiscal matters or about their expectations from an eventual budget.

[Russell Ullyatt]

As I indicated, these individuals are my friends. We talked about many different issues in relation to politics. I mean, politics is our lives. I do not recall any specific conversations about taxation. Typically, the most prolific topic has been when is the next election. But I do not recall any conversations about taxation or the next budget in particular.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

You have ten seconds, quickly.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Could you briefly tell us what the fields of expertise of these five companies are?

[Russell Ullyatt]

No, I can't, actually. I don't know their areas of expertise.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

It is indeed bizarre to apply for jobs in companies whose field of expertise is totally unknown to the applicant.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you.

Mr. Mulcair.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again, Mr. Chairman, it's only Mr. Ullyatt who can answer these questions and it has a material effect on the testimony that we will eventually receive from his former employer.

Mr. Ullyatt, are you the owner of a company called RU--a play on your initials, I would assume--RU Thinking? Is that a company that you own?

[Russell Ullyatt]

Mr. Chair, I'm happy to answer these questions if you so direct me to.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I'm going to give the same answer to Mr. Mulcair as I gave the last time. This may be information for another committee. We're here looking at the breach of confidentiality of a secret document from the finance committee.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

I understand that. The only way that we're ever going to find out if what we're being told at any stage of this is in fact the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth is to look at questions of credibility. It's a rather simple question, and it requires a rather simple answer.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Mr. Ullyatt's been straightforward, hopefully, with his answers on his credibility on the leak of the document, and I'll continue to take questions on that.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Right, but in his last answer on my previous round he told us that everything he did in his office, other than send this to the five lobbyists, was in accordance with the approval of Ms. Block. I now want to find out if he's the owner of a company called RU Thinking, but that's something I can fairly easily see in the registries.

Is RU Thinking the owner of a company called Bestmail.ca, whose website says this: “Dedicating ourselves solely to political mailing and fundraising gives Bestmail.ca unique insight into the best practices within the political mail sphere. Having sent over 5 million pieces of mail in the last two years allows us to work with your organization...”?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I can continue to repeat myself and you can continue to go that way, but that's just going to take up valuable questioning time. You're getting into an area that is best served by another committee. There are members of that committee here. I think if you'd like to go that way, we can do that.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

I think that's an easy question for him to answer. Is that his company? Is that what's on their website? He's said that he's worked for Ms. Block for two years. Is he still the owner of that company? That's a pretty easy question to answer.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Yes or no.

[Russell Ullyatt]

Yes.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Thank you. It took a while, but we got it.

In your previous testimony you said that you had no “official” conversations—and there was your qualifying word—with any of the five lobbyists. Could you please tell us what the difference is between an official conversation—your word—and any other conversation? Could you please talk to us about those other conversations? If they're not official then they did exist but you're considering them not official. What was the tenor of those conversations?

[Russell Ullyatt]

Mr. Chair, as I've maintained, these individuals are my friends. I discuss many different issues with them. I see them at different social functions.

I called four of the individuals in question after I was terminated and offered my apology for my actions and the problems that it would cause for them. I would consider that an official conversation because it was in relation to the matter at hand. But I've had conversations with these individuals that are about other topics unrelated to this because they are simply my friends.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

For example, the representative of the Canadian Gas Association had a long exchange with Ms. Block during our pre-budget consultations, but that person at no point had an unofficial conversation with you. You have never spoken with Mr. Egan otherwise?

It was a quite friendly exchange between the two of them, so I just wanted to know....

Is he one of the four, by the way?

[Russell Ullyatt]

Do you mean one of the four that I offered my apology to?

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Yes.

[Russell Ullyatt]

Yes.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Okay, so you have spoken to him and you had spoken to him before.

In the run-up to the pre-budget consultation hearings in the finance committee, did you have any conversation of any kind with Mr. Egan of the Canadian Gas Association?