Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 18th, 2010

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

I have talked to you in the past about cases where people living in the north district of a city were required to vote in the south district, and vice versa. Yet in some cases, these individuals lived only 500 meters from the community centre which had been designated a polling station. You mentioned that there will be a review of polling stations. Does that include these kinds of situations?

[Marc Mayrand]

Yes, that is one of the things that will be reviewed. First, the polling divisions and the geography related to those polling divisions. We want to be sure that polling stations are located as close as possible to the place of residence of people living in the area.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

I would like to know when our returning officers intend to call us in. Are you willing to take a gamble by giving us a date now?

[Marc Mayrand]

It will be in the spring. In terms of giving you an exact date—

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Spring begins next Saturday.

[Marc Mayrand]

Well, it will obviously happen before the end of June. I am not in a position to tell you the exact date now.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Between the 20th—

[Marc Mayrand]

As soon as the date has been set, I will send you a notice.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

So, it will be between March 20 and June 21.

[Marc Mayrand]

Yes. You will obviously receive advance notice, so that you know what is coming up.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you very much.

Monsieur Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, Mr. Mayrand. I would also like to convey my greetings to the people who are with you today. Welcome to the Committee.

Mr. Mayrand, I heard everything you said this morning. Your comments relate to the Supplementary Estimates, which is the reason why we are here today. I hope the government's position doesn't scare you too much. They seem to be saying that this is costing too much and we will not get to the end of the process. In our legal system, someone can go before the courts, lose his case, appeal and then lose his case again. It could go as far as the Supreme Court. That is part of our democratic system which was enshrined by Parliament.

[Marc Mayrand]

Absolutely. It is one of our fundamental values.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It's a little like telling people receiving Employment Insurance benefits that if they win their case in front of an arbitrator and it's unanimous, the government should not have to pay the airfare from Ottawa to Bathurst for the judge or arbitrator because it's too expensive. Even though the government believes it acted appropriately and that it was not mistaken when it refused Employment Insurance benefits to an unemployed worker—a $150 cheque—it is going to cost $5,000 or $10,000 to recover that $150. So the message seems to be that, because it's too expensive, justice will no longer be done and we will no longer rely on our judicial system. That is pretty much the message I am now hearing from them. Do you agree?

[Marc Mayrand]

That is always a delicate question. I will simply say that our compliance efforts overall focus more on education, on information dissemination and on prevention. Legal disputes do arise on occasion; however, they are fairly rare. When you consider the system as a whole, it is clear that there is very little litigation involving Elections Canada. On occasion, however, there are issues or disputes that may be perfectly legitimate, where the parties have completely different viewpoints, and which raise questions as to how the legislation should be interpreted. That is why we have a judicial system—to resolve just this kind of dispute.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

In terms of expenses associated with our legal system, it will cost whatever it costs, because justice must be done. Otherwise, we may as well get rid of the Supreme Court. That, too, would cost us a lot less money.

With respect to Mr. Poilievre's question, these amounts have to be authorized by the House of Commons, since we are voting on the appropriations. Are you concerned that if Parliament votes on this, it may not give you money to go before the courts?

[Marc Mayrand]

As I mentioned earlier, the only amounts that must be approved by Parliament—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Poilievre says that would be a good idea.

Please continue, Mr. Mayrand. This is coming from someone who supports you.

[Marc Mayrand]

The only amounts to be approved by Parliament with respect to Elections Canada's budget are salaries for indeterminate employees.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I understand. I was worried about that.

[Marc Mayrand]

That is what the legislation states, and I believe that this is intended to provide guarantees of independence. The legislation grants statutory appropriations. Obviously, we are accountable for the expenditures that we make. However, expenditures related to the administration of the electoral process must not be subject to external factors.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I am happy to hear that, because I would not like to see the Conservatives, with a majority government, voting on such a measure. I think this case would quickly have been dropped.

In any case, I would like to come back to page 3 of your brief, where you talk about advance polling and rural areas. I still have the same problem, Mr. Mayrand, and I'm not satisfied. There are workers out West living in camps that house almost 5,000 people. In the last election, representatives of Elections Canada said they went to these sites and put up signs. However, that is not what the workers have been saying.

Are you looking at this? Is there a team now preparing for a future election, to ensure that these citizens will have an opportunity to vote?

These workers came to see me, saying they did not have a chance to vote. Many of them stay there for two or three months and don't leave the site. That is the reality. What are you waiting for to do something about this?

[Marc Mayrand]

Absolutely. We are making a sustained effort to get in touch with people who are working in these camps and who are often seasonal or casual workers.

Of course, that effort also depends on a great extent to the good will of the people who manage these centres. Some of them are very difficult to access. They certainly are not accessible to everyone. So, we have to make arrangements, which we are now trying to put in place, and that generally works well. There may be situations where authorities at a work camp have not necessarily cooperated in a satisfactory manner, but I can assure you—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Do you need legislation for that? I don't understand.

[Marc Mayrand]

We could look at the legislative provisions. However, in the electoral system, our work often depends on the good will of all kinds of third parties.