Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 24th, 2011

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

I was going to speak in favour of his motion. I think it's a good idea, because what I was going to try to get at is that these items are added after the fact, right? The point is it was unclassified as a result of a decision made reviewing the document by some officer--I don't know who--who decides that it should be moved to that: something starts off being classified and it becomes unclassified.

By the same token--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Could I stop you for a second and ask, are we on a motion from Mr. McGuinty to table the document? Is that where the committee would like to be? If we are, then we'll take speakers on that motion.

Okay? So that's where we are.

Speaking to the motion, Mr. Reid.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you.

Yes, what happens is that the decision to unclassify it appears to be taken in error by someone within the department. Actually, it would have been a useful exercise to figure out exactly how this went wrong, how it was turned into an unclassified document.

I support Mr. McGuinty's motion, and I would add that I would like to amend his motion to add two additional documents, which were submitted by Margaret Biggs in conformity with the request made by this committee, which had asked whether “not” or “do not” was added in as a matter of course. The minister promised we'd get back with some additional documents. That was done on March 18.

And two additional documents were tabled, one dated March 5, 2010, and one dated March 8, 2010, which also have recommendation advice to the minister with the word “not” inserted in one of them and the words “do not” in another. The only reason these have become unclassified, therefore made public, is the fact that the minister was responding to a request from a committee, which of course has further rights with regard to demanding the publication of normally confidential information than would be authorized under a mere access to information request.

So, Mr. Chair, I'd like to ask to have these two documents tabled as well, as part of the motion. I'm sure Mr. McGuinty would be willing to support that, as would every other member of the committee. This gives further context and demonstrates that this was something done as a matter of course in that department and further adds to the strength of the argument that indeed, far from trying to manipulate the committee....

Unless Mr. McGuinty wants to argue that she's forged these documents and had Margaret Biggs' active cooperation in so doing--which I think would put them very seriously in contempt of Parliament--unless he's willing to argue that, this actually is the knock-out punch that demonstrates that this was the normal course of doing things, that the entire argument that the minister was trying to pretend to mislead us is entirely imaginary, entirely mendacious, and entirely without foundation.

On that basis, Mr. Chair, I would very much like to add these by way of amending Mr. McGuinty's motion.

I believe, Mr. Chair, the way it works is that you go back and find out whether Mr. McGuinty is willing to accept that amendment to his motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you. I will chair, thank you.

Do you want to speak on that point of order, or are you creating a new one?

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

No, I want to speak on that point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I have other speakers on the list, though.

All right.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Didn't CIDA supply the committee with these documents? We've already got these documents, don't we? They did come—

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Well, I'm assuming you've already got the document. You've got it running in an ad, for crying out loud, which says not to vote for the corrupt Conservatives because of this imaginary thing. So if we've already tabled those, why not table these as well?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Mr. Reid, the two documents you're speaking of were asked for at this committee. The chair hasn't seen them yet, and since my regular clerk is not here today, I don't know if they were given to the committee and distributed to members. I can only ask you. Were they distributed to members?

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

No, I do not have them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Then I would have to assume that they were not yet in evidence.

The amendment is to Mr. McGuinty's motion to table this document, amended by Mr. Reid.

Mr. McGuinty.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Sorry, Mr. Chair, I've just confirmed with your clerk. The committee has already received this document.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

That one?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Correct.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Okay.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

The unclassified document that I sought permission to deposit here—my apologies—is already on record here. It was sent by e-mail to the clerk and confirmed by your clerk here this afternoon. So there's no need. I just wanted to raise that it speaks to the issue Mr. Reid was—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

We can say it got to the clerk. I'm asking members of the committee. Did it get to you?

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Which one?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

First of all, the one you have in your hand.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Every member of committee, I'm told, has received this and this was also deposited on the floor of the House of Commons.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Mr. Chair, if I understand correctly, what Mr. McGuinty is saying is that the document he wanted tabled has already been submitted and he was only submitting it to make a rhetorical point and he was not actually trying to inform the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Since that is no longer a motion by Mr. McGuinty, Mr. Reid, are you moving a motion to table your documents?

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

I guess I am, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

We're trying to get there in some way today, so thank you.

On the motion by Mr. Reid to table his two documents that have not been received by the committee....

Mr. Lukiwski, I have you.

I'm going to try to clean up something here. Mr. Young, you were on one of the original lists, are you...? You'll defer?

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Yes.