Evidence of meeting #64 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was commission.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
Normally, I do listen to what you say. I try to reiterate what you say, but much softer.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
Yes. I disagree with the suggestion that Mr. Lukiwski was here 10 years ago the last time he did it; you are remembering me.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
I was here. People often get us confused.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
But my memory is very good. You were on the subcommittee with me and we did lots of work on it, and you agreed with me at that time. Do you recall?
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
I've never disagreed with you on any subject ever, not even once, so it must be true.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
If that is the case, we will suspend.
Monsieur Goguen is in the question and answer segment of his speech and he'll be here any moment. We'll suspend until he comes, and then we will deal with him.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
I love anxious members of the committee.
Go ahead and catch your breath.
12:25 p.m.
Robert Goguen Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, CPC
I'm sorry I'm late. I was just giving a speech on nuclear terrorism.
I'll try to be brief. I'm hoping no one is going to have a meltdown.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
12:25 p.m.
Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, CPC
In essence, the revised plan provides a boundary that would have 85,595 people living in it, which is plus 13.5%. What I'm objecting to is the removal of nine polls situated within the city of Moncton on the north side of the Trans-Canada highway. The population there is 6,087.
We may as well talk about it right off the bat. Adding those 6,087 people would drive the population up to 91,682, which is plus 22% of the provincial quotient. You should be mindful that in the Miramichi—and this is all about geographics, as that's the way New Brunswick is laid out—they're minus 21%.
In my mind, the only apparent reason for moving these nine polls into the neighbouring riding of Beauséjour—Dieppe is the voter parity and the quotient. So why should we take exception? Why should we amend this and let the riding of Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe go to plus 22%?
Well, there are two very good reasons. One, we want to respect the ultimate goal of effective representation of the citizens residing there, and two, we want to preserve the community of interest.
You must have heard these terms before, Mr. Chair. I'm just guessing.
12:25 p.m.
Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, CPC
It's a good one.
Let's start with effectiveness of representation. All nine polls are sitting within the boundaries of the city of Moncton. There's a public transit system that goes from where they live to my riding office within about 15 minutes. At this time, there is no public transit that goes to the honourable Dominic LeBlanc's riding, which is in Shediac. So if you don't have a car, you either hitchhike to come to my place or you can take the bus, or you can hitchhike to the neighbouring riding. I don't think you can hitchhike on Highway 2, although it's nearby.
With regard to community of interest, other than perhaps having a very nice cottage in Beauséjour or Dieppe, there are not any significant ties between this area and the riding of Beauséjour—Dieppe. These polls have been within the city of Moncton, within this riding, for over 45 years. The community of interest...I won't repeat it; it's in my brief. Look, they have the same municipal council. All the factors are there, the economic commission, the whole bit. In fact, if anything, the ties with this part of the riding in Moncton are going to intensify rather than diminish.
Here's why. Moncton High School, which is situated right in the heart of Moncton, is moving in 2014. It's moving to poll 55. So in essence you'd have Moncton High School in Beauséjour—Dieppe riding, and all the houses and all the infrastructure built around it in Beauséjour—Dieppe. It doesn't seem to make sense from the point of view of community of interest.
If you look at it from a total point of community of interest of the riding, it's Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe. A portion of Riverview, 45% of the residents, reside in Fundy—Royal. They have Dieppe. Now the initial provision was to try to put all of Dieppe within Beauséjour—Dieppe, but a portion of Dieppe is now in Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe. By putting these nine polls into the neighbouring riding, what you have is a further fractioning of a community of interest. So you could have part of all three of the cities in other ridings. That to me doesn't make sense from the point of view of effectiveness of representation and community of interest.
The major objection, and I draw your attention to this, for not having put all of Dieppe into the Beauséjour—Dieppe riding was a concern about diluting the political strength of the francophones. Doing that would have taken the francophones from 31% to 20%. In the riding as it stands, I believe 28.2% of the voters would be francophone. By adding the 6,087 in the nine polls, the number of francophones actually goes up...and there is a mistake in my brief; I said 29.62%. I redid the math; it's 29.25%. The francophones go up by a full percentage point, so surely that argument can't rule the day.
I've spoken to the honourable Dominic LeBlanc. He doesn't object to representing these people, but it doesn't cause much of a domino effect to his riding. I believe his riding as it stands is about 84,000. Moncton is at 85,000. By removing the 6,000, his riding is still over the quotient, so it really becomes a matter of balance, effective representation, and community of interest.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Super. Thank you for being concise.
Mr. Lukiwski, you have five minutes.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
Thanks very much.
I really don't have much, other than an observation.
I think this is the first time I've heard that we have representatives from the three main parties all agreeing to a proposal by a member. In other words, if both the Liberal from New Brunswick, Monsieur LeBlanc, who borders up to your riding, and Mr. Godin, who represents the NDP, all agree with your objections, I think frankly that's a pretty good testament that what you're recommending is probably the route to go.
The only question I have is why the commission would suggest the changes they have. Is it merely, in your opinion, that they wanted to try to get the population quotient?
12:30 p.m.
Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, CPC
That's the only rationale I can come to. It was to come as close as possible to the quotient. Beyond that, if you look at effectiveness of representation and at community interest, those two factors override the numbers.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
Yes.
From my standpoint, Mr. Chair, based on the fact that we have representatives from the other two parties all agreeing with this, I think it's a pretty strong testament right there to the effectiveness of your presentation and the fact that we should probably just recommend it.
12:30 p.m.
NDP
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Out of simple curiosity, were these changes made in the first report that the commission produced?
12:30 p.m.
NDP
12:30 p.m.
Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, CPC
No, we didn't deal with it because initially, the entire city of Dieppe was in Beauséjour, and francophone groups expressed their concern. This is the second version.