Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 16th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I'd like it to be noted that I gave you considerable extra time because of the sucking up to the chair.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Thank you so much, Chair. That's why I did it to begin with.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

We'll be going to Mr. Reid, for five minutes, please.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you. I don't want to spend too much time on my first question, but I just want to be clear.

Did you say I was smart or good-looking?

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

I said you were smarter and he was better-looking, for the record.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Okay. Got it, all right.

My questions relate to your suggestion here. I'm looking at this map, which I assume you gave out?

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Yes, I hope it was given out.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

So just let me get this clear. The transfer causes Regina—Qu'Appelle to go up in population, that's obvious, and Regina—Lewvan to go down. You're making the point, as I understand it, that because of this area south of the airport, which is in Regina—Lewvan, Regina—Lewvan is growing faster and so that will even out over time.

Is that correct?

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Absolutely, Scott.

Right now under the current commission proposal, Regina—Lewvan has a deviation of plus 7.82% and Regina—Qu'Appelle has a deviation of minus 1.25%. If we switch just the Cathedral area, not accounting for growth, the deviation would be that Lewvan would go down from plus 7.28% to a minus 0.33% and Regina—Qu'Appelle would go from a minus 1.25% to a plus 6.46%.

Now some might argue that all you're doing is shifting population from one to the other, but what it allows for is that growth component in Regina—Lewvan. There will be at least 15,000 additional residents in Regina—Lewvan come the next election. So if we didn't make a shift, if we didn't take Cathedral or some area of the current riding out, that riding would have probably 20,000 to 25,000 more people in it than the other two Regina ridings, and I just think, frankly, that this is disproportionate.

By moving this Cathedral area it better reflects an average population variance in all three ridings. I should say that it also has the support of MP Scheer. I also make mention that it does not have any impact on Wascana because Mr. Goodale has indicated before this committee that he is satisfied with the commission's report. He didn't want to see any changes to the boundary, so this does not affect Mr. Goodale's riding whatsoever, but it better reflects a population shift in the city of Regina and it allows the community of interest, the Cathedral area, to maintain itself. They are a very strong community association. I've spoken with many of them.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Does this proposal split them?

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

No, it keeps it in its entirety.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

No, not the proposal you are making. The proposal the commission made. Did it split them?

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

No. The Cathedral area stays under the commission's proposal in Regina—Lewvan. I'm saying take that Cathedral area and put it into Regina—Qu'Appelle.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

So it keeps them united.

I was going to ask this question if I could, Mr. Lukiwski. The southern boundary of the Cathedral area, I gather, is Wascana Creek, and that's the boundary between the ridings. Aside from the Lewvan Drive bridge and the Albert Street bridge, are there any other crossings at that point, or is that a firm dividing line?

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

That's what I would call a natural boundary, Wascana Creek.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

So it's more of a boundary than the roads are is what I'm getting at.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Yes, it basically defines the southern edge of the Cathedral area.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

The other thing that I wanted to ask about here, because I'm about to run out of time, is Regina—Lewvan. It kind of has the look of.... This happens when they're drawing boundaries, the one that kind of contains the stuff that got left over. I mean, the airport is more or less in the middle, dividing two separate areas where actually, under the boundaries proposal done by the commission, you have to drive essentially out of a suburban area in order to get from one to the other.

I gather the transfer you're making does not really affect.... The awkwardness is already there. It's not really changed what you're proposing.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

It really doesn't have any impact, outside of the fact that it addresses the disparity in population. Members of the Cathedral area, even though they would be put into a new riding, would not have to travel any further to get to an MP's office. They wouldn't have to travel any further to get to anywhere in Regina, frankly.

It's just primarily done to keep the Cathedral association as one entity and to address the disparity in population. That's all it's doing. It's a minor change, in my opinion, and everything else remains the same.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

You have 20 seconds left, Mr. Reid.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

I just want to say that you're both smart and good-looking, too, Tom.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Thank you very much, Scott.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Very good. I love the camaraderie.

Mr. Cullen, keep it up.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

We're just gushing. All right, I will keep it up. We must be in a complimentary mood.

I want to say two things, Mr. Lukiwski, on the record, both with respect to you recusing yourself from this committee, which I thought was correct, and also the incident around the robocalls that went into Saskatchewan. You very clearly and publicly said that they, in your words, were “a screw-up” and that someone should take responsibility. I think of the process, because we're dealing with the process of how we get to these maps, and then the maps themselves, and so I compliment you on those two decisions.

What has left me increasingly worried, particularly with Saskatchewan and uniquely to Saskatchewan, I might add, in the process that we've been hearing as a committee, is that for the first time we've been hearing testimony directly going after not just the process but the commissioners themselves—not as you have chosen to do today—suggesting alterations to the maps that the committee could then report on.

I'm not sure how the committee is going to handle it, frankly, in our report to the commission. We'll have to note it because it was talked about so much. We've heard about accusations of bias, fixed mindset, gerrymandering, and that commissioners denigrated the process.

You know, as someone with your experience, those are very strong accusations to make of an independent, arm's-length body like an electoral boundaries commission. I'm wondering if you've had any reflections on that, or you bring any today, because in your statements you went out of your way to talk about while you disagreed, you also believe that the commissioners had the best interests of the people of Saskatchewan at heart.

I've been not just increasingly worried, but offended actually, if I can be totally frank with you, as to some of the testimony I've been hearing. People can bring passion to this and be frustrated with the maps that have been presented, but the accusations of bias and gerrymandering, and the commissioners denigrating the process, it seems to have crossed the line for me.

I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on that particular aspect of the testimony we've heard so far.