Evidence of meeting #19 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
It was totally irrelevant, but we were up there.
5 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I would go on to say that a similar argument can be made when we talk about Vancouver's Downtown Eastside. We'll use the extremes to make some points. We are talking again about a whole other world, only this time we didn't travel thousands of kilometres away from our urban setting. In fact, this exists in one of the most beautiful cities not just in Canada, but in the world, one of our largest and most important cities.
Again, Mr. Chair, at the risk of repetition, it's the same argument that applies to people on the west coast as it does on the north coast, that is, to be able to hear from people who live there and from representatives of community groups who are there on the ground. We may all think we can imagine what certain aspects of life are like for those who are living on the streets. Much like the beauty of our north, you really have to see it to understand it. I don't imagine those would be easy hearings, but it's the opportunity for those representatives to point out again in the community, in the neighbourhoods, why this bill either works for them or it doesn't.
This could be the case too when we get out there, that there are still a lot of unresolved problems. Some of those issues have been raised by the Chief Electoral Officer. We studied them and thought about them and they didn't find their way into the bill. For purposes of doing a thorough and adequate study of a piece of legislation, we need to hear from citizens not only on how the bill will affect them negatively, but how they have negative aspects in their experience of voting in Canada as it is, and how the bill is not addressing those concerns.
Not everything will be geography-specific. I accept that. There are some parts of the bill and our voting system that are uniform across the board, for instance, the actual ballot. Even in the voting areas those little cardboard screens are set up. That's all pretty uniform at the end of the day. There are some exceptions, but for the most part, that part would be uniform. The process of being identified as a citizen, of having the ability to present yourself, to understand where you should go and when, and then to go about the process of elections....
It's interesting, when we do international election observation missions, we study every single piece of the process. Oftentimes we'll identify—and this is relevant, Mr. Chair, I'm not trying to play a game here—someone as they come through the door and we'll stay with them all the way through the process. If they have any problems, we may even talk to them afterwards, particularly if it was about their ID. Or if they were rejected from voting, then we would go and talk to them. Again, I've said this, and I won't say it a lot, but when you get out into the villages of a lot of the emerging democracies, you start to realize the challenge to their democracy just because of their geography and infrastructure, or in particular, lack thereof. We would like to see that same respect paid to Canadians.
There aren't many in terms of numbers because we are one of the most urbanized cities in the world—
5 p.m.
A voice
That's countries.
5 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Countries, thank you. We are one of the most urbanized countries in the world, but—
5 p.m.
An hon. member
They thought you weren't listening.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
5:05 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
No, no, come on. That can't count against me. Forgive.
The point is really not a joke, and the point is to allow people an opportunity to explain.
In the north, it would be, “Well here's the challenge that we have. You can see the snow, and you can see the frost.” In the case of Vancouver's Downtown Eastside, the issues are going to be very different, but they're just as challenging, and if it leaves those Canadian citizens without the right to vote, that is as big a crime, and a shame, and a blight against our democracy. Anybody else in this country, whether it's a former prime minister, a former governor general, or the richest person in the country, their vote counts absolutely no more than that of any other Canadian who finds their way to a polling station and casts a ballot.
What's happening here is we're not showing them the respect they deserve, because if we did, the government would at least have agreed to negotiate a certain number. I won't throw a number out there, but it would be somewhere between none and what we've asked for. It would be a negotiated number.
Would it still satisfy all the concerns that I'm raising? No, Chair, no, but, it would be fairer. The government doesn't understand this so well, but fairness usually dictates that you give a little, we give a little, and we can both live with the decision. That's what's missing here. It didn't happen with the.... To show that kind of respect to other parliamentarians; that respect was not shown to Elections Canada, and by virtue of refusing to support my motion, they're not showing that respect to Canadians.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
I have a point of order again on repetition, Chair.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Mr. Chair, may I ask what is your ruling on it? You got the editorial comments from Mr. Lukiwski. He brought it to your attention, and I really can't tell if you're making a ruling that he is being irrelevant or repetitious.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Stay with us, Mr. Martin. If I make a ruling, I'll be the first one to tell you.
I'm simply suggesting that I heard from Mr. Lukiwski that he felt that was repetition. I said, thank you, and I asked Mr. Christopherson to continue.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Had it been a ruling of repetition, I would have said, “Excuse me, Mr. Christopherson, I agree with the member for Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre. That was repetition.”
5:05 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you. I guess there's no rule about repetitive points of order.
5:05 p.m.
NDP