Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 28th, 2015

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you.

Okay, I'm going to move on to Mr. Lamoureux, for seven minutes, and we'll try to get another round in after this if we watch our clocks.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you.

I have a very quick question to begin with. Would you, Mr. Minister, be open, or maybe even take the initiative, to make an amendment to the legislation that would enable Elections Canada, in any fashion whatsoever, to allow for a registry of those foreign voters prior to the writ being dropped? Is there any movement in your thinking on that particular issue?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I think they are already registered. The ones who are on the international register of electors are already registered.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

I meant the actual application for the ballot. I'm sorry.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Oh, you meant the ballot application. As I said earlier, Canadian residents have voted abroad for many years without requiring an advanced ballot order. That has worked reasonably well so far and I'm not sure exactly what problem we would be fixing.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

I have a few other questions that I'd like to get on the record but I may make a general observation. Whether you're the Chief Electoral Officer or an individual listening in to the debate or one of the direct members of a political party or whatever it might be, it seems to me that the government is very paranoid about elections and our election laws. There seems to be a fear factor, to a certain degree, such as we hear in the case of “riding shopping”, as an example.

When I was in the forces, I took a great sense of pride in the city of Winnipeg. I even maintained a mailbox in Winnipeg, even though I didn't have to, because I had a high sense of pride. That was my community. I was in the forces, so when I was posted to Edmonton, I still maintained it.

There seem to be, I would suggest to you, a number of people, and in particular youth who might be travelling abroad after graduation—they are living with their parents, they might identify more with their community, and their interest is in that community—to whom this legislation is saying, we don't care because we believe that you are going to manipulate by riding shopping, so that you can determine which riding in the country could be won or lost.

Do you not feel that you are taking away from those individuals who have such a high sense of patriotism that they want to be able to engage, want to vote, but also want to be a part of the community with which they are most identified, for whatever reason? Do you not see that this is a negative aspect to the government's approach to the legislation?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

If it is a negative aspect, then it has already affected tens of millions of voters across the country who face the very same requirement that they vote in the place they reside.

I can't simply say, “I live in community X but I really like community Y, so I choose to vote in the latter instead of the former.” That's not how our system works. You vote where you reside. This bill simply aligns that principle for those who are casting their ballots from abroad.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

I have never heard anyone complain about the international registry, except for Mr. Harper and your government, Mr. Minister. That's the only time I've heard a complaint.

I don't believe that Elections Canada was in any form encouraging the types of changes you are suggesting. Is that not correct?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

We established a principle in the Fair Elections Act that everybody had to present ID when they voted. They had to prove that they resided in the riding in which they were voting. Now we're extending that very same principle to those who cast their ballots from outside of Canada's borders.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

That's right. But you see, Mr. Minister, the operative word there is “we”. It's all about we the Conservative Party and the Prime Minister's Office, much like the unfair elections act.

There was no sense of, gee whiz, this is about democracy here in Canada so we should be working with Elections Canada and we should be working with other political entities, and with many different stakeholders who love and have a strong passion for democracy in our country. It's all about the Conservative Party and their need and desire to change the legislation.

Do you not feel that there's an obligation to work with the many different stakeholders who are very passionate about our election laws, before bringing in legislation?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

We always work with stakeholders before introducing legislation.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

No, you don't.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Our approach here is widely supported; 87% of Canadians believe you should be required to show ID to prove who you are and where you live before you vote.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Mayrand appeared before the committee. One of the concerns he stressed, and it's right out of the Library of Parliament report, is that the 60-day coming-into-force period is calling for an exceptionally short period for implementing changes to the electoral process. Specifically he stated that the coordination of information sharing with the Department of Citizenship and Immigration and the resulting update to the registry would be a lengthy process that could not be completed in 60 days.

Is there any concern whatsoever on your part or the government's part that Mr. Mayrand, who Is responsible for elections, could actually be correct, and should you not be concerned about that?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

We want the changes contained in the citizen voting act to be in effect for the next election. We believe that people should prove where they resided, who they are, and that they are citizens, before they vote. That is why we put forward this bill. We hope that the Chief Electoral Officer will cooperate with Parliament to implement the bill prior to the next election in the timeframe that is set out in the bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I'll tell you that you have 20 seconds left, but Kevin, I know you can't do a question in 20 seconds, so I'm going to move on.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Are you planning an ad campaign on this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

That would be a good idea.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

It's an interesting suggestion. Normally you're attacking us every time we bring forward advertising, and now you're asking for more of it. Sometimes I have a hard time keeping track of the Liberal position on advertising, but that is a historic problem for the Liberal Party.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I let that happen and I shouldn't have. Thank you very much.

We're going to move to a four-minute round, and if we stay tight on the four minutes.... It's probably going to be three minutes, folks, just so we can get it done.

Minister, we're going to have to stop at about five minutes to the hour. The bells will be going shortly after that. The committee has about a couple of minutes' worth of work, so we'll excuse you at that time.

For a three-minute round, Mr. Richards starts.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

All right. That's a short round.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

That's asked and answered in the three minutes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Okay, that's good to know. I'll be quick, then.

Minister, according to Elections Canada estimates there are approximately 40,000 non-citizens who are currently on the national register of electors. That means, obviously, that receiving voter information cards that would tell them how to vote would certainly mean, upon arriving at a polling station, that they could be permitted to vote legally because they had received this information.

I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about how Bill C-50 solves that particular problem. Then I have one other question.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

This is a very important question. As you know, citizenship is the basic key that unlocks voting rights in this country. That's what the Constitution says in black and white. The Chief Electoral Officer informed me that there are tens of thousands of non-citizens who are on the voters list. He asked for access to Immigration Canada's data on non-citizens who are in Canada. The bill authorizes that transfer of information and will hopefully allow us to remove those thousands of non-citizens from the list.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Thank you.

The other thing I want to touch on is what I would say is a double standard that exists currently for those who are voting abroad. For Canadian residents who are applying for special ballots, who are obviously in Canada, there's a different standard from what's being currently applied for those who are not resident in Canada. When they apply for a special ballot during an election, they're subsequently sent a ballot for all future elections, in my understanding.

Obviously that would be a double standard. I'm wondering whether you can tell us a little bit more about how this bill fixes that.

I also notice that you have an amendment that was presented today that addresses this to some degree. Would you tell us a bit more about how it would be addressed, both in the bill and in the new amendment that you suggested today?