Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 22nd, 2018

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here and for sharing with us your experience and background. I have certainly enjoyed a good working relationship with you here on this committee in the past. If you're confirmed, I have no doubt that we'll continue to enjoy a good relationship, so thank you for being here today.

Obviously there has been a lot of talk and speculation in the media about the process around your appointment. I'll have some questions that get to that to some degree. Obviously that helps us to assess the choice being made.

Let me start by asking you when you first submitted your application to be the next Chief Electoral Officer.

[Stéphane Perrault]

I'm not good with dates, but if I remember correctly it was around the end of September that a posting was done for the position, and I submitted my application within a couple days of that posting. I was quite ready for it to happen, and that's when it happened.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Do you know much more about how that process was conducted? It was opened. You were obviously interviewed at that time. Obviously there was at least one other person who was interviewed. Do you know how many others were interviewed? Do you know how the process unfolded from there?

[Stéphane Perrault]

I certainly can speak at fair length to my experience of the process. I don't think it's for me to speak to other people who may or may not have been involved in the process.

In my case I submitted my application. There was an interview, I believe in early November, so the process ended at the end of October, if I'm not mistaken. Early November there was an interview with members of the Privy Council Office. Minister Gould's office and PMO was there. There were, I think, five or six people there, so it was a fairly extensive interview.

That was followed by a reference check. It was a 360 reference, so there was someone from the outside, someone from the former employer, and a current employee or former employee. That was before Christmas.

It was followed by a series of psychometric testing. There's some online testing, two separate tests that are done online. Then, with a psychologist, there's a 90-minute live interview, which is basically a mental agility test. Again, it was very thorough. It went on for about 90 minutes.

That was before Christmas. I did get a call, I think, in February, from Minister Gould. I understood from her at that point that she was just doing a personal check on all of the people on the list. I don't know who these people were. She called me for a brief interview over the phone, and that was the last formal aspect of the process.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Okay, and you said that occurred in February, as best you can recall.

[Stéphane Perrault]

If I remember correctly, yes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I have other questions, but given the fact that Mr. Perrault has already indicated that he wouldn't have answers for some of the questions that may be required, I'm going to give notice of motion. It reads:

That the Committee invite the Acting Minister of Democratic Institutions, Scott Brison, to appear within two weeks of the adoption of this motion, to answer questions regarding the appointment of a new Chief Electoral Officer, for no less than two hours, and that this meeting be televised.

I'm moving a notice of motion for that, but I do have further questions, so I'll move to those.

That conversation with the minister happened in February. That followed the other testing you indicated. It followed an interview that even included the Prime Minister's Office, shortly after you applied in October. Were you then informed at some point that another candidate had been chosen for the position?

[Stéphane Perrault]

I got a phone call from the senior personnel in the Privy Council Office telling me that letters would be going out to parties that day or the next day—I'm not sure—and that my name was not on those letters. They did not tell me whose name was on those letters. That was just the day before the Toronto Star article that everybody is familiar with.

There was nothing after that until about a month later, when I received a second call, again from senior personnel in the Privy Council Office, asking whether I was still interested in the position—and of course I am still interested in that position—and I said yes. At that point, there was an indication that letters would be issued to parties with my name on those letters.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Was that someone in the Privy Council Office in both instances?

[Stéphane Perrault]

Yes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

You weren't informed as to what had occurred in the interim or why you were receiving this second call. You didn't inquire, I guess, either.

[Stéphane Perrault]

I did not inquire, and I was not informed as to the reasons they were doing a second set of letters.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I think you've probably already answered the next question I have, but I'll ask it anyway, just to be sure. When that first candidate was chosen—obviously someone else was chosen—you weren't consulted at all on that candidate, obviously.

[Stéphane Perrault]

No.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

What was the process following that? Were you simply asked if you were still interested in the position, and there were no further interviews or other types of processes that occurred? Was it simply, “Hey, something's changed. Are you still interested?”

[Stéphane Perrault]

Exactly.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I have another question in this regard as well. I believe that in the May 12 Canada Gazette, it was stated that the government was still receiving applications for this position up until May 17. Were you aware of that?

[Stéphane Perrault]

I think the process indicated that there was a 30-day posting, but that names would be received until an appointment was formally made. I think it's standard for all senior appointments. I believe that was the understanding from the outset of the process.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

What I will do is simply indicate at this point that obviously there are some questions here that remain unanswered. We appreciate the background and the qualifications of the candidate being put forward here. However, obviously, there has been some kind of irregularity in this process, and no one seems to know what it is. The witness here today can't answer that, and that's why I've moved the motion.

I think it's important, in order for this to be properly assessed, that there be some answers given to that to determine whether the best candidate was in fact chosen. This process seems to be bungled so badly. Especially given the pattern we've seen of this government in bungling these types of appointments, we do need to get a sense, and I think that's why the motion is so important. I've given notice that I will be moving that, and we look forward to the next round of questioning.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you, Mr. Richards.

Now we move on to Mr. Cullen.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, again.

I'm going to stay on the process for a moment. I can understand it might be a little uncomfortable, just because you weren't in charge of the process; you were simply involved in it.

To pick up on the timeline for a moment, at any point in the process—the interview process, the conversations with the minister—were you made aware of any consultations that had happened with the other parties in Parliament?

[Stéphane Perrault]

The only thing I was made aware of, I think it was the day before the Star article came out, was that letters would be going out or had just gone out, and I was not on those letters.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Right. In terms of the first nominee....

[Stéphane Perrault]

Correct. That's all I know.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

If you're successful in this, you'd be an officer of Parliament hired by Parliament for 10 years.