Evidence of meeting #15 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was staff.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I appreciate what you said, fair enough, on the walking thing. Okay, that was part of my rant.
The serious part was about those who aren't able to walk as easily or are temporarily disabled. It makes a difference. Sorry, I find it a little cavalier to say, ”Oh, well, just walk. Don't be such a wimp.” There are some people who have problems doing that, and they're left in the same jam we are. I haven't heard any explanation there, let alone any kind of sympathy for that.
Acting Clerk, House of Commons
Well, it's not that I'm not sympathetic; it's just that I don't think we can start giving taxi chits to everybody who needs a ride up to the Hill. There's an economic reality to that. That said, as an employer—I can't speak for members' employees, since I don't know what arrangements are made there—we still have the service around the Hill for our staff to take the bus. For our staff, we do our best to accommodate them as per their requirements.
I didn't want to sound cavalier, trust me, Mr. Christopherson.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell
Okay, before we go on to the next witness, just so that committee members know, Benoit Giroux, the director general of Parliamentary precinct operations, is in the back here if you have some questions.
I will say, Mr. Clerk, that I left here at one o'clock in the morning on Wednesday and there were three white buses waiting for me, so I appreciated that. Thank you.
Ms. Vandenbeld.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Before I get into my line of questioning, I do have one question on this subject as well. I know that when there are committees or the House is sitting, the buses will be running, but what about special committees?
Benoit Giroux Director General, Parliamentary Precinct Operations, House of Commons
Thank you, Mr. Bosc.
We would offer services to committees. When there's a committee that is planned, we do have a route for 1 Wellington and we have a route for 131 Queen, and we follow the schedules of the committees.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
I do agree with Mr. Christopherson, and I would just echo the concern. Especially as a woman who is often walking on the Hill alone at night, it is of concern. I don't think you'll find that most women MPs will call somebody to have a security guard walk with them all the way to their car. I don't think you'll find us availing ourselves of that very often, but when the buses are there, we'll certainly use them. I'll just put that out there.
The last time you were at the committee, Mr. Bosc, you brought up the idea of the parallel chamber. I'd like to delve into that just a little bit more, from a practical perspective, in terms having a parallel chamber similar to what Westminster Hall does, but also looking at it as a potential option for the Friday sittings. Instead of having a physical parallel chamber, we would have a parallel chamber in name that would happen on Fridays instead of the regular House sitting, which would have different orders of business.
What do you think the practicalities of that might be?
Acting Clerk, House of Commons
The idea of a parallel chamber is actually not at all complicated from a procedural standpoint, from our perspective. The way the parallel chambers are structured in Australia and Great Britain is that they have a very small quorum. The chambers and houses there have delimited the kinds of business that can be transacted in such a forum. As well, they have gone so far as to say how proceedings flow from that. If a decision must be arrived at, who makes it? Does the parallel chamber make it or does the full chamber make it? Those kinds of issues are all covered in the way those two chambers function.
From our perspective, from a purely logistical standpoint, a parallel chamber could be very simply like a committee. We could have it in the reading room, we could have it in this room, we could have it anywhere. It would be up to the committee, if it wants to go down that road, to delimit the kinds of arrangements that would be required for such a chamber.
We're completely flexible on it. In terms of impacts, we wouldn't need any additional staff, I don't believe. We run 55-plus committee meetings a week. This would be like another committee meeting.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
If it were to occur on Friday, for instance, physically in the House, then would the rules of quorum in the BNA Act, that we have to have a quorum of 20, not apply if we named that a parallel chamber?
Acting Clerk, House of Commons
Again, the House is sometimes used for various purposes. If it weren't the House sitting that day, it wouldn't be the House sitting, so those concerns wouldn't occur.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Right now we sit for four and a half hours on Fridays. We don't have committees on Fridays. We rarely have votes on Fridays.
If, for instance, we were to have a parallel chamber on Fridays, but let's say it would sit for eight hours, we could get more members on the record. It would also be much more efficient for members who are travelling far, who don't have something to say, and who have to sit in the lobby—they have to be there just in case something happens—instead of being in their constituencies. But more members who do have something to say, who don't have the opportunity during the week, would actually have an extra three and a half hours of time to be able to get on the record.
Is that correct?
Acting Clerk, House of Commons
That's certainly one way of looking at it, yes.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
What impact would that have on the staff, the table officers? Would that have any impact?
Acting Clerk, House of Commons
We staff the chamber on the basis of shifts. We take turns. Whether the House sits three hours, five hours, or eight hours, it's all of a piece. We supply the necessary personnel to run the chamber.
I don't see a huge impact. There might be if it sat for eight hours on a Friday. That might have an impact on maybe overtime a little bit, but we're used to going with what the chamber decides to do. This week we sat until midnight one night. The staff adapted, and proceedings ran smoothly.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
For instance, for take-note debates, emergency debates, even private members' business, we could have a longer period, for instance, for S. O. 31s. And because we wouldn't have a question period on Friday, we could even take the S. O. 31s off the Monday to Thursday period, put them on Friday, and then add more time for question period.
Those are all options.
Acting Clerk, House of Commons
If the committee wanted to recommend a complete change to the House's weekly schedule, it could do so. It could move the statements by members to a parallel chamber. It could recommend that, certainly.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
What about notice? You mentioned that there are a number of things that require certain numbers of sitting days. Giving notice usually requires a particular period of sitting days. Would it be very complicated to make adjustments for that in case it's on a Friday?
Acting Clerk, House of Commons
If, let's say, the House didn't sit on a Friday, what could be done is to have the day count just the same for notice purposes. I know our colleagues in Britain do that.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
On the business of supply, where you have an x number of days per period, would you count Friday as a sitting day for those purposes as well—not have a supply day on a Friday but be able to count it?
Acting Clerk, House of Commons
Well, no. If the House doesn't sit on Fridays, it doesn't sit on Fridays. It is not a sitting day.
Liberal
Acting Clerk, House of Commons
Again, that would be something for the committee to consider, what counts and what doesn't. Remember, a parallel chamber is not the chamber. It's a different beast, so you have to be careful how you quantify things after that.
Liberal
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I just want to make a little statement, which is directed more at our analysts than anybody else. It comes from the exchange between Mr. Christopherson and Mr. Bosc. It's just this: Mr. Christopherson was pointing to the exceptional cases that require the green buses, for people who are not capable of walking around or have some form of a mobility issue.
I just want to suggest that the best way of dealing with that, when it arises, is that we not try to change the rules, not try to change the green bus system, but try to change our intra-party cultures. Each party ought to try to move those individuals to Centre Block so they don't have to travel around very much. Then we ought to work on making the committees they are members of meet in this building, as opposed to a different building. That would actually resolve the matter for the period between now and when we move to West Block. It will be a different story then, but I suspect it could be accommodated there.
That's what we did with Steven Fletcher, who was, of course, a quadriplegic. He had an office on the first floor of Centre Block. I suggest that this would be our first line of attack, and it could be dealt with immediately, whereas changes to the green bus service would be several years in the making.