Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 26th, 2018

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

That leads me into what I wanted to ask you about next, which is a bit about your teaching. I wonder if you could tell me a bit about your faculty. How many students do you have enrolled in the languages programs at your university?

[Arok Wolvengrey]

At this particular time our faculty is somewhat reduced from what it once was. When I first joined here 24 years ago, we had nine individuals in our faculty. We had three full-time Cree instructors, three full-time Saulteaux instructors. We had three full-time linguists, myself included. We employed sessionals for other languages that we taught in Nakota and Dakota, and occasional Dene classes in the north.

We have a number of programs in Cree and Saulteaux. Particularly we have full-degree programs and we created classes, and we still have literacy-based classes. For our oracy-based classes, there was not a huge amount of demand because essentially either we'd get fluent speakers or we'd get non-fluent speakers, and the non-fluent ones seemed to gravitate towards the literacy first. Even though they might want to improve their speaking skills, fluent speakers didn't partake of the oracy classes, and it became a logistical problem to offer them with small numbers.

We have minor programs in the other languages spoken here in Saskatchewan. We're attempting to broaden that, but at the moment, we are down to four in our faculty: two linguists, one Cree instructor, one Saulteaux instructor, and then various sessionals for the other languages.

The enrolment numbers are not large, and again, a lot of that has to do with whether there's a demand out there for the particular skill set that we try to impart with our program.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

You said you have minors. Obviously, you would have people who would have majors in these languages as well.

[Arok Wolvengrey]

Yes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I know the numbers aren't large, but how many students would we be talking about? How many students per year would come out with a degree?

[Arok Wolvengrey]

Out of the program, it's minimal. We have one or two per year actually coming through the program, and that's for the Cree program, and occasionally the Saulteaux program is a full-degree program. Essentially the demand has not necessarily been there. They will take the class as a minor more likely. We have education programs where teachers are allowed to concentrate on language, so we produce some language teachers as well through that program. We have a pre-degree certificate program that allows people just to get the expertise to teach the language without approaching a full education degree. We have a number of different things like that. But again, in recent years our particular programs and our university has suffered some retraction in our capacity to deliver programs like this.

I'll leave it at that.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Okay. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Meegwetch.

Mr. Saganash.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Meegwetch, Mr. Chair.

[Member speaks in Cree.]

First of all, Arok, I want to thank you for calling me Minister Saganash. Although I'm not a minister, I find it has a nice ring to it.

Thank you for being with us. I listened carefully to your presentation, and there are a couple of things I would like to ask you.

You talked about the fact that indigenous language rights are already entrenched in the Canadian Constitution. Could you elaborate on how, according to you, section 35 is related to section 25 of the Constitution, and to other sections, sections 23 and 22, in particular?

[Arok Wolvengrey]

I certainly will not claim to be an expert on the constitutional legality of the standpoint that has been argued. I mentioned that you had brought these things forward in your testimony, and in briefly going through those articles, I can see that the argument there is valid. It's been used in a number of court cases to talk about indigenous language rights and indigenous rights in general, and certainly I think it also relates to treaty rights. There was nothing in treaty that said that we're going to cease to use our languages. In the absence of such a thing, I think our ability to communicate in our own language is just one of our inherent rights. There's nothing in any of the articles that abrogates that. In fact, a number of the articles speak to the fact that there's nothing in particular articles that abrogates our basic rights.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

In your work as a linguist, have you come across any new words in different Algonquin languages?

I gave the example to this committee of the eastern Cree. I'm from James Bay on the Quebec side. I'm the first Cree from northern Quebec to have been elected to Parliament, back in 2011. It's understandable, then, that there was no word for “member of Parliament” in our language. We literally had to work with elders to determine the best word we could use to define what a member of Parliament does, and that's how we came up with “yimstimagesu”.

I believe very strongly in the preservation and revitalization of indigenous languages in this country, but I also believe in the development of these languages, taking into account the modern context in which they will survive and develop. Have you come across any words in your work that were literally invented?

[Arok Wolvengrey]

Absolutely. There's even something like the use of pimihakan for “airplane”. There's always innovation.

You mentioned that word, yimstimagesu. Your elders coined that for you in your capacity. I asked about that.

Actually, we have a Cree word-of-the-day site on Facebook, where over 10,000 people are contributing information from speakers, or helping others who are trying to reclaim the language. We had a bit of a discussion on that. There were a number of different words suggested for “government” at different levels, for “speaker”, for “minister” or “MP”.

On another project, I believe it was in 2014, for the Winter Olympics, we did a project with a number of Cree speakers in Saskatchewan because they were going to be doing broadcasting for the Winter Olympics. We had a few-day session where we talked about various Olympic sports and tried to gather up words that people had been using or come up with new terms for those. There are certainly things like that.

The late Freda Ahenakew, kayâhtê, worked on a number of projects. One of them was a medical terms dictionary. Those are very important works that are being produced in a number of communities. Certainly I believe they've been produced for Innu and East Cree, in which we're just learning how to help doctors and nurses better interact with people by coming up with the terminology, whether it's traditional terminology or innovating new terminology for conditions, for instance, that no one had experience with before. So yes, quite a lot of that goes on in a variety of communities.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I think that a lot of this work will be important for the future of this institution in particular. The first question I asked when I got elected in 2011 was whether I was allowed to speak my language, ask my questions in Cree or do my speeches in Cree. I was told no back then, but I think we're slowly getting there.

Were you aware that the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples has been translated into more than 50 indigenous languages?

[Arok Wolvengrey]

I wasn't aware of the exact number. I was certain that it had been translated into some. Do you mean 50 indigenous languages in Canada or across the world?

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

That's throughout the world.

One last point is that since I'm not running again in 2019, I guess I can come back to this place and translate the rules and procedures of the House of Commons. There are a lot of words in that book that don't exist, necessarily, in Cree. We still have a lot of work to do. Thank you for your contribution to this committee.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Thank you, Mr. Saganash.

We're back over to Mr. Graham.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you.

It's nice to have you back. You mentioned the Facebook page. While you were talking to Mr. Saganash, I was looking at the Facebook post that you put up a couple of days ago, asking specifically about what to call an MP in Cree. I notice you got quite a few answers. Can you go into those a little more?

[Arok Wolvengrey]

Sure. There are a number of words that commonly come up in there, and there are different variations.

One of them, a very basic one is okimaw, which is the traditional chief or leader. It has been used for a number of different levels. It can be modified to be okimakanak, which is okimaw, someone who has come from the territory or is elected. Simply, it's used like sîpiy, which is “river”, and sîpîhkân is a canal.

Okimakanak has been used for “elected official”. It tends to be used for the chief of band and council, and there are variations of that. Okimaw has also been used to refer to the prime minister. Kihcôkimâw is used for “king”, the “great chief”.

Okimakanak and kihcôkimâw are both terms that have been used for “government”, and specifically the Canadian government. There's that type of use. Some have suggested that if we used okimaw for prime minister, we could use okimâsis for an MP, which is a diminutive form. It's also my wife's family name. There are variations on that, and some have suggested doing the same thing, making an even further diminutive, and using that for provincial governments and MLAs, and so on.

Another word that's commonly used is nîkân, “to be in the lead”. It can be used temporally as well, to talk about the future, but onîkânew is “leader”, and onîkânohtêw is literally “one who walks in front as a leader”. One that has often been used for positions in hierarchies and in business offices is nîkânapiw, which is “one who sits in the lead”, so that's another variation.

There are a couple of others that come out. Owiyasiwêw is “he or she who makes a law”. So owiyasiwêw has been used for “judge”, has been used for “lawyer”, and has also been used for “elected officials” or variations of that. Oyasowewiyiniw for “band councillor” is one of the common ways it's used.

The term that Mr. Saganash uses that his elders came up with means “to speak on behalf of others”. That's a fairly common usage as well, although again, across dialects, the root of that, e-yamit, “to speak”, and its forms in different dialects, still persist in most dialects, but Plains Cree doesn't use that word specifically anymore. It would have to be replaced with pekiskwewin, “to speak”, and opîkiskwestamâkew, “one who speaks on behalf of others”. Those are the main ones.

One final one was used by Mr. Ouellette in his testimony: otapapistamâkew, which is literally “someone who is sitting in place for others”. It can be used to talk about succession, but it can also be, in the sense that it's meant there, “to sit in place of others as a representative for them”.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

You mentioned that a word is no longer in use. That leads me to another question, which I've had for a long time, long before I was an MP. I had heard when I was younger that the addition of a writing system changed the evolution of the indigenous languages in Canada. Can you speak a bit about that?

[Arok Wolvengrey]

Well I'm not certain that it did. Certainly there are mixed feelings about writing. Obviously these were primarily oral languages, as are all languages in the world except for those that are preserved solely in writing. The oracy, the oral language, is definitely primary and that is what the greatest concern is. Some people believe that writing can help with the retention of languages. Others don't feel that's a priority. There is that potential tension to it.

When we introduce a writing system, of course, spelling becomes the primary issue and whether we are going to standardize that. The other side of the writing system is, when we see a word written as we might write all our materials here at First Nations University, others without training in that writing system might look at the material and think, “Well, that's not how I say it”, because they don't have experience with the writing system. But of course the same thing could be said if we first see English or French written and don't understand how to read it; we might misinterpret what it says and not understand that.

The writing of the languages is a really important point and certainly a point that will come into the logistics of this as well, when we go beyond oral interpretation and need to keep a standard record of the proceedings in these languages. However, as a tool it can help unite the dialects of particular languages, because if you use a more standardized form that doesn't necessarily reflect the exact sounds of each individual dialect, ultimately with education and training in the writing system, it can help unite the different dialects, and a single writing system might be more useful in doing that than phonetic-based writing for each and every individual dialect.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I really appreciate these answers. Thank you.

I think I'm out of time again.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

We'll go to Mr. Reid.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Am I right, Mr. Chair, that it's five minutes for this round?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

That's correct.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Thank you.

Welcome to our guest.

I just wanted to observe, as a starting point, that the debate over the merits of written versus oral language is one that goes back in western culture as well and is recorded because of the fact that obviously, it couldn't take place until there was writing and after that it could be recorded. That is a large part of what is going on in the Socratic dialogue. Socrates operated in a spoken medium and had reservations about this newfangled writing. His followers, Plato and Aristotle, although they agreed with him on many things, disagreed with him on that point, which is probably why we know that Socrates existed at all. Had he won, we might not know that he was around. That's a battle you see going on through any number of cultures as they develop a written system.

This does raise a couple of questions, and I think I'm going to focus my questions entirely on the Cree language or group of languages. Is there a single writing system for everything that can be classified as Cree or, as with Inuit, do you have different systems? They have syllabics for the eastern Arctic and alphabet for the western Arctic. What is the situation with Cree?