Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 29th, 2020

[John Weigelt]

We recognize that the Constitution upholds the ability to work in both official languages. We also recognize that the Translation Bureau is a unique Canadian institution that was formed to do translation in both official languages and has extended that to support 60-plus indigenous languages as well.

You can do that today using supplemental solutions. Having a variety of different channels over the same venue, as we heard, can be fraught with challenges. The voice clarity might not be what it needs to be. We're working hard to find a solution to build that into the platform.

One of the things to consider, as we look at the transformation that's under way, is the use of artificial intelligence-enabled transcription to assist the translators. Microsoft sees AI as a way to empower individuals, not replace them, so being able to do voice transcription can provide the prompt or support to translators. Imagine how language sounds when it comes through a drive-through terminal: You can hear a crackled voice and you can barely understand. We found that the AI tools can transcribe that exceptionally well and can provide that assistance to the great work that our translators from the Translation Bureau are doing.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

I'm going to Zoom next. I have two questions.

The first one, of course, is on interpretation. I understand that while we're using that right now, there is a bit of system.... I'm wondering if this is specific to Canada or if you're working to iron this out generally, because there are definitely some challenges with that service.

As my second question, I'm just curious how many people Zoom employs in Canada.

[Harry Moseley]

We introduced translation in October of last year as part of our platform, and we can have numerous different languages available on the platform. We also have real-time transcription and closed captioning for the hard-of-hearing and other services of that nature. I think that's the answer to your first part.

On the second part, I don't have the number of employees we employ in Canada, but I will make sure that we get that back to you tomorrow.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

That would be really helpful.

One of the particulars, though, is that translation services through Zoom are not perfect, so I'm just wondering about the improvements upon that as well.

[Harry Moseley]

With respect to improvements in translation, I actually had a call earlier today with your CIO and your CTO for the House of Commons and we're connecting them with our product team. I think that might have occurred already today, and we're looking to improve upon that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you so much. That's all the time we have.

Next up is Mr. Duncan.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Madam Chair, in the second round do we have four or five minutes each?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

We didn't really agree on that.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I'm good with whatever. I'm going to set a timer for myself so that I actually leave a chance for the witnesses to respond.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I think four minutes is good, if we want to end before 8:30. We'll set it for four minutes. Thank you.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I'm good with that. Thank you.

I want to address some of my questions to Zoom.

Mr. Moseley, do you have a contract with the House of Commons specifically or do they purchase what's available online?

[Harry Moseley]

We are working through the master services agreement for the House of Commons. This is not just purchased online; we have an account team resident in Canada that is working with members of the House of Commons.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Is there a copy of the contract that we would be able to see to review as a committee, or is that not possible yet or not signed yet?

[Harry Moseley]

I don't have the status on the contract. I suspect that it can be shared with you. I don't see any reason that it couldn't be, but that's not something I control.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I appreciate that.

Do you have any other contracts with the Government of Canada, or is it just with the House of Commons right now?

[Harry Moseley]

I would have to check. I don't remember off the top of my head.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I would appreciate that, whenever you get the chance.

You addressed some comments about the recent changes you made to the routing of data. I want to take another angle on data protection or what is done with data. We've heard different rumours, and maybe my question will give you a chance to address some of these.

Is it true that Zoom data is sent to Facebook, regardless of whether or not someone has a Facebook account? Can you discuss that?

[Harry Moseley]

We never send any data to Facebook. That is not true. There was device information collected through the Facebook SDK. When we understood that, we immediately changed it within 24 hours for the Facebook login.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Okay.

[Harry Moseley]

No meeting data, no subscription data, no content, no chat, no nothing went to Facebook.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I appreciate that.

The reason I'm asking these questions is that sometimes I get concerned about the precedents that we may set as we enter into these relationships. As we have other committees that are looking at privacy laws, I would just hate it if they came back and said that since the House of Commons does it and members of Parliament do it, it should be in law. It's those types of things.

Another aspect we hear about a lot is the sale of data or information to third parties for advertising. Do you do any of that whatsoever—any data, any marketing, anything?

[Harry Moseley]

Nothing. Zero, zilch, zip. We have no intention of it, never had, and never will. It is not our business model.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I appreciate that. Thank you.

I have a quick question for Citizen Lab.

We mentioned the Zoom platform, and the line that's been used about it is it's a “gold rush for cyber spies”.

Do you agree with that assessment? Is it a Zoom-specific problem, or are there many platforms that have similar gaps in the challenges that you and others have addressed in media reports and studies?

[Ronald J. Deibert]

The comment we made, the evaluation we made about Zoom, was earlier in April, on April 3. Then we released a second report on April 8. Subsequently we've had conversations with the company and the CEO. They've made some significant steps towards improvement and they've laid out a 90-day plan, so I think they should be commended for the steps they have taken.

As it stands now, we would still not recommend Zoom, especially for sensitive communications. For something like this, it's fine, and for something like Parliament itself, it's fine, but if you were having discussions in camera or in caucus, I would not recommend it at this time—

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I apologize for cutting you off, but I have only about 30 seconds left and I promised Mr. Richards that I would give him that last minute or so, if I can, Madam Chair.

Sorry. I appreciate the context and the update on that.