Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 30th, 2020

[David McGill]

I'd be more than happy to do that. It's something that we're hoping to make progress on in the next couple of weeks. If that would assist the committee, I'm more than happy to do that.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. McGill.

Mr. Hamlyn, I believe you are testing remote voting. Could you talk to us about what remote voting looks like in the U.K. Parliament, please?

[Matthew Hamlyn]

I certainly can. I can tell you what we hope it's going to look like. After this meeting is finished, I will turn on my Twitter feed with a certain amount of trepidation to see how the members got on.

Essentially, it is built using systems that our members already have. We have an online system for tabling parliamentary questions and motions, so that's secure. We know how to run it and how to support it. It simply has a function that, put most simply, when there is vote, MPs will get a text and an email telling them to check into the MemberHub portal. When they open that—they may have it open already—there will be a banner saying, “Vote now in progress”. You click on that, and that will take you to a screen telling you what the question is. You click “Aye” or “No”. You get a second check saying, “Are you really sure you want to vote 'Aye' or 'No'?”, and you go ahead and click that. You then get a confirmation that you have voted and how you have voted.

We will then take those results and publish them, as we do now. There will be the usual checks by the House staff, and then once we are content the numbers work, they will be announced by the Speaker and published online.

That's the plan anyway.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Hamlyn.

Would you be willing to table with this committee the procedure and how it has worked, please?

[Matthew Hamlyn]

Yes. We've written a lot of guidance and communications for MPs. I hesitate slightly because I'd rather send it to you when we've actually launched the system. That will not be for another week, but I can send you, straight away via the clerk, what we've already told members about the testing, which gives you a pretty clear idea of what we're planning. Obviously, I will send you any follow-up once we've actually launched it.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Could I ask one last question around the European Union? Did you look at the system the European Union used for remote voting?

[Matthew Hamlyn]

I don't think we did, because we start in a very different place. The European Parliament, like most other parliaments that I know of, have a desk for every member in their plenary hall, so members tend to vote from that desk, pressing buttons. We've never had that system, so we started from a completely different place. Obviously—

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Sorry, Mr. Hamlyn, I meant that for Mr. McGill; my apologies.

[Matthew Hamlyn]

I'm so sorry.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

No, it was my fault.

[David McGill]

I'm not sighted on the fine detail of it, but we had a very quick look at it. I understand the system of remote voting the European Union has implemented is quite convoluted. I think it involves voting sheets being faxed to MEPs for them to fill in and then fax back from designated machines. We didn't delve into that more because a quick glance told us it probably wouldn't meet the security requirements for the system of remote voting that we were looking for.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you very much. That's all the time we have.

Thank you, Dr. Duncan.

Next up, for two minutes, we have the leader of the Green Party of Canada.

For two minutes, Ms. May, please.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you so much, Madam Chair. It's lovely to learn from all of you.

Actually, speaking of the Greens, I was going to ask Mr. Hamlyn about the following. My friend, the Green member for Brighton Pavilion, Caroline Lucas, has explained to me how you vote in the U.K. in normal circumstances in the Palace of Westminster and how it is so different from how we vote in Canada. I wonder if you could describe it for our members.

Members are already not required to be at a physical desk and to stand in their place to vote. If you could describe it, that would give us context for how this hub portal was an easier transition for you.

[Matthew Hamlyn]

Yes, the traditional method of voting in both the House of Commons and the House of Lords is that when the question is put and members make it clear to the Speaker that they wish to divide the House, the members will leave the chamber and walk through one or other lobby, the aye lobby or the nay lobby, and obviously they will come from anywhere else in the parliamentary estate if they are there on time.

They have eight minutes to get into those lobbies. They will then pass a desk where House of Commons staff will take their names using laptops so that we get an electronic record of who has voted. They then pass two tellers, who are members of Parliament, one from each side of the question, who count them. At the end of that process the tellers announce the numbers in the House. We then publish the list of members voting online as soon as possible thereafter.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

It always seems to us in Canada that we are exactly like the Parliament of Westminster, but certainly our Speaker of the House gets a list of our questions now from all party whips, whereas in the U.K. the letter goes to the Speaker to say, “I'd like to ask a question”, and the Speaker decides.

There are some differences, but in this case basically the point I was going to make to my colleagues here was that the public never sees a member of Parliament in the U.K. cast his or her vote.

Essentially in our Parliament it would be the government lobby and the opposition lobby. In your case, there are essentially corridors in which members proceed whether they are voting aye or nay. Depending on the corridor, you cast your vote by running down the corridor until you catch someone's eye to be recorded on an iPad.

Is that a good summary of how you voted before the pandemic?

[Matthew Hamlyn]

Yes, you walk down a corridor. The fact you have voted is obviously public and we publish that online and in Hansard, but—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

That's all the time we have, Mr. Hamlyn. Thank you.

Next up we have Ms. Blaney, please, for two minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. McCowan, I'm wondering about interpretation for the cabinet meetings. Is that service provided by the Translation Bureau, and if not, are the interpreters certified or uncertified freelancers? Do you know?

[Ian McCowan]

I don't. I have done very badly in answering the questions this morning just in terms of my areas of responsibility.

My understanding of the way cabinet is functioning right now is that there are obviously fewer cabinet ministers in the room and there is reduced support staff, but I do not know the specifics of how it's working—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Is that something you could find out for the committee and let us know?

[Ian McCowan]

Absolutely. To address your concern, what specifically would you like to know?

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I just want to know if interpretation for cabinet is provided by the Translation Bureau and if not, if the interpreters are certified or uncertified freelancers. Thank you so much.

[Ian McCowan]

No problem.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Hamlyn, I am wondering if there have been any matters of privilege that have been addressed during this period of time.