Procedure and House Affairs Committee on July 6th, 2020

[André Gagnon]

Actually, in the past, members frequently have voted twice. As you know, some members vote yes, then they get up and vote no. It's not uncommon.

That said, and to repeat what Stéphan just mentioned, it would be very important not to mix those two types of voting. If the House were to decide to vote in an electronic way, it would need to do so, even for members who would be in the House in a hybrid sitting model. If the House were to choose to go with in-person voting, it would be important for the House to do so, if it wanted to do so, to relate to that and go all the way on it.

That said, as the Speaker mentioned a bit earlier today, it's possible that in some specific cases members would be allowed to vote remotely, and I think the Speaker mentioned members who were on maternity leave or sick leave.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Mr. Brassard.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you.

I'm trying to confirm with Mr. Aubé, because one of the things we asked for, in all the related documents with Zoom, was the actual contract with Zoom. I can tell you that I haven't seen that, and if I haven't, then it's my mistake. I just want a confirmation that the contract with Zoom was circulated to members of the committee. I know from talking to some of my colleagues that they haven't seen the Zoom contract either. Is it there?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Mr. Clerk, do you want to speak to that?

[The Clerk]

Yes. On June 15, the House of Commons administration did provide the committee, as per its order for the documents, with multiple documents of a contractual nature between the House of Commons and Zoom. There was an email sent out to members of the committee—I have it right here—at 11:48 p.m. on June 15. That was received by me approximately 20 minutes before I sent it to members of the committee.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll go back and look for it. Maybe I missed it in the volume of documents.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

No problem. We were all surprised, because we received it in the nick of time, so that's why it really stood out.

We are carrying on with two and a half minutes each.

Madame Normandin.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

I would like to hear what Mr. Aubé has to say about the subsequent approach that we are going to adopt, to establish an electronic voting system, for example.

Do you have an idea of what the timeline would look like? We actually have to submit our report around July 21. If we are going to implement electronic voting, we would like it to be ready for mid-September.

Is that a wide enough window for you to be able to establish the system and test it in advance?

[Stéphan Aubé]

We think so, Ms. Normandin. Given the work that was already done in the last six weeks, we believe that we are able to meet that timeline. However, your schedules may well be affected, because we will have to get people involved. It is easy to develop it internally, without consultation, but we will have to take the time to hold the meetings we need in order to consult members who wish to be part of the process.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay, but the tests with various members can be done on an individual basis, can they not? It does not need to be done in a group, as I understand it

[Stéphan Aubé]

It could certainly be done on an individual basis. When I say a group, I am thinking about all the members we will have to work with.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Right.

[Stéphan Aubé]

The consultation would be done individually, and we could provide the team with feedback from various members.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

So part of it will still need members' collaboration in order for it to be implemented.

[Stéphan Aubé]

Yes, it would be useful to be able to do a small-scale simulation. Then, perhaps we could do a large simulation with the entire House before we use it officially.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Right. I have another question for you.

Ideally, we would like everyone to still be able to vote in the House in person. That is Plan A. At the moment, we are working on a Plan B, which involves a system, an application, that would allow us to vote using the House's various electronic devices.

However, have you worked on a Plan C, just in case Plan B does not work, so that we have a backup solution if we run into problems?

[Stéphan Aubé]

Today, the Speaker introduced a plan when he was discussing the request by the Opposition House Leader. That is one of the plans that have been proposed.

Plan C, actually, is a plan like the one we discussed with Mr. Turnbull previously. This is to support members individually when they run into difficulties and to give them another way to communicate with us. Those are the things we are considering. However, we have made no decisions along those lines, because it has to be validated or recommended by your committee.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

So it would be helpful for us to make a recommendation about the need for a Plan C.

[Stéphan Aubé]

That would be good.

The premise would be that people will not be able to vote if they run into difficulties. Does the committee accept that, or does it wants us to come up with another way of voting on an individual basis for members who run into difficulties? That should be a committee decision.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you.

Ms. Blaney.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Of course, with our traditional format of voting in the House, we all stand in the House to be recognized, voting either yes or no. I'm curious about our capacity to use Zoom to do something similar. What's the difference between having people stand on Zoom so that we are able to see them stand up and vote and using an app? Is connectivity the challenge? For either issue, what is the plan for addressing connectivity?

What happens to me sometimes, although more when I'm at home than when I'm in the office, is that I have a day when the connectivity is not very good and I keep getting bounced out. It sounds as if a few of our members have had that experience in their constituency offices as well.

Those are my two questions.

[Stéphan Aubé]

Go ahead, sir.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I was going to talk about how important it is to verify the individual who's voting, one of the key things that we have to work on, and then pass it over to Monsieur Aubé if there's anything else. I know there have been some security concerns about who is actually voting.

As for the vote in the House, you could do it visually or have electronic voting in the House, as was mentioned earlier, where a member's name is displayed once the vote is taken. Members can see how they voted, and everyone can see it. You see it instantaneously, confirming what you've done. Within a 30-minute period, again depending on the direction we get, you could change your vote or leave it as is, depending on what you thought. It has happened in the House that members have stood and voted the wrong way. I can honestly say that I've done that before while I was in the benches, and it will happen again before long.

I'll let Monsieur Aubé continue before I get myself deeper into trouble here.