Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 25th, 2020

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Mr. Aubé you aren't going to get off easy on this one regarding information technology. I can imagine, over the course of all these years, the absolute hornet's nest that exists within that building as to information technology. We've heard about the physical limitations of heating and ventilation.

Where do you see us going with information technology in the reconstruction process, compared with where we are right now?

[Stéphan Aubé, Chief Information Officer, Digital Services and Real Property, House of Commons]

The biggest challenge is planning for the proper infrastructure allowing us to have the proper connectivity when the time comes, because as you know, trying to plan 10 years ahead of time when we know that in our technology lifespan we live on a three-year basis means that we just can't plan 15 years ahead of time.

The goal, as Mr. Wright and Mrs. Garrett said, is to have technology team members integrated into the construction team. Our goal right now is to work closely with them to have the proper infrastructure everywhere in the facility, so that we can then talk about the systems and the solutions once we are in the design stage of the building, in order to provide the services.

That is another area on which we need consultation with members. As you know, if we're moving toward a chair layout in the chamber versus a desk layout, that certainly will change how we interact with you from a technology perspective in the chamber. It might be the case that we won't be able to supply you with a Surface tablet or a laptop. We'll need to find different ways to interact. It will be the same thing with voting.

There are different things that we're going to be looking at over the next year, but our focus right now is really on the technology infrastructure and making sure that it is everywhere in the facility so that we can have the proper security, proper connectivity and proper environmental control systems that you will require in this new facility, sir.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

So, just as it's difficult to project the costs in the physical aspect of the building, given all the various options that exist, how do you possibly work on projecting the costs for what's required in 10 years and then what will be required in subsequent years as that technology changes? How is that even possible?

[Stéphan Aubé]

To Mr. Wright's point earlier, we've built a lot of buildings over the last five years. We've built the chamber, we've built many committee rooms, we've built many meeting rooms and we've built many offices. So, we have baselines right now that we've established over the years of how much a committee room costs, how much a chamber costs and some of the technology.

Our approach, sir, is to constantly revise these through the submissions processes of Public Works, and if there are any changes required, to raise and escalate those. But we certainly work closely with the project team to make sure that we use the baselines and the experience we've had through our different renovations, and then supply that as a baseline for budgets, and then look at how things evolve.

I must say, sir, that I have been in the field for about 30 years. The price of a PC hasn't changed a whole lot over the last 10 years. It's just the functionality that seems to evolve within that PC, but we didn't get a price rebate on all the new stuff they're offering.

I've seen pretty much the same thing with the audiovisual and broadcasting aspects over the last 10 years when we did chambers and committees. Our budgets have pretty much been similar, recognizing that technologies have changed a lot within them.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

I also imagine that for the visitor experience, the technology within that has obviously evolved significantly. So, incorporating some of that, maybe give us an idea where your thinking is on that.

[Stéphan Aubé]

We're in the initial phases of the discussion with the library. I don't want to pass this along to Mr. Morin, but once the concept is aligned—and the library is already working with Carleton University and other universities, looking at virtual tours, physical tours, and at the audiovisual requirements—once we nail this down over the next year and have an agreement on what experience the members want for the visitor welcome centre, we'll be able to cost these out fairly easily. The costs of these facilities are very similar to those for building a committee room. We do have a very good understanding of what it costs to put the proper projection facilities and connectivity into these places.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Mr. Gerretsen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I have a couple of quick questions and a comment.

First of all, Mr. Wright, to your point about working with other colleges and universities, my understanding is that Algonquin College cancelled that historic masonry program back in the spring of 2018. Is that because there isn't work here? You talked about an industry that had been revived, but it seems as though Algonquin College was struggling to get people into the program.

[Rob Wright]

You're quite right. That program was cancelled. We had some conversations with Algonquin College at the time. I think it that was really around the financial considerations of running a college, rather than of the masonry industry.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Do you still have the people to do the work?

[Rob Wright]

I would say two things. One is that there's been a significant capacity built in the capital region through this work, and the second is that capacity remains a challenge. It is a challenge within this industry across the country. There are certain demographic realities within this industry that—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Just to clarify, it's not the masonry program that was cancelled; it was the historic masonry program.

This question is for you, Mr. Patrice, as you may be best for this. Who decides the room allocation? When this building was being built, who decided that the opposition whip's office was on the fourth floor, or is it the third party? Who decides that stuff? Who decides where those rooms are going to be located?

[Michel Patrice]

Unfortunately, for this building it was the administration. Room allocation is the whip's prerogative. That's for the future.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

You're saying for this building, it was done by administration.

[Michel Patrice]

Yes.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I'll preface this with a comment. I come from a municipality that takes great pride in its heritage. In our city hall in Kingston, you can't put a nail in the wall to hang a picture without approval from a curator. From that perception of heritage, it's almost to the point where people don't want to have meetings in city hall anymore because of all of the heritage impacts and elements of that. It's easier to hold them somewhere else.

What I've always found remarkable about Centre Block, and what I've told people, is that it is just as much an opportunity for people to learn about Canadian heritage as it is a practical building that is utilized. Any given room can be a reception in the evening, and then the next morning it's a caucus room, and then later on it's a committee room. They're very practically used buildings. To the point that Mr. Duncan brought up about wires dangling everywhere, as much as that takes away from a bit of that historic element, it really provides the functionality of it.

That's what this building lacks. It's very functional. This building is top notch in terms of technology, but it misses the component of public engagement. When I was in Centre Block it always felt like a publicly open building, because as I walked through the hallways, I would see people walking along on a tour. This feels more like an office building. I understand the constraints that led to that; I'm not criticizing this building. But how do we ensure that when we develop and redo Centre Block, we keep those elements of the historic...telling Canada's story, welcoming visitors, welcoming Canadians, while at the same time providing for that level of functionality? Does it include—and I say this very cautiously—something, for example, like having more administration in this building, and utilizing that building more for parliamentary purposes?

[Michel Patrice]

That's certainly the vision for the Centre Block. As I said, leveraging this facility for the administration or other functionality, now that it's a utilized building, those committee rooms will remain, for example, and also other facilities that we may have across the street.

As you said, Centre Block is a heritage building. It's one of our most symbolic buildings in Canada, but it's also your workplace. It's where you meet your constituents and where you meet Canadians and so on. We need to recognize that.

It's always easy to look at the facility on site and say it should be better. I have those thoughts often enough. But at that time, they said this building was a temporary chamber, and it was designed with the view that it would become an office building. This means that for the period of time when it's an interim chamber, it won't look or feel like the Centre Block did. The inside of that building was essentially gutted. It had no historic heritage fabric because of a previous renovation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Mr. Patrice.

Ms. Blaney, then Mr. Turnbull and then Ms. Duncan.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you for this third opportunity.

You're going through the building and doing the renovations and the upgrading that's so desperately needed, while looking at maintaining the important heritage, but I'm curious how security fits into this whole aspect. Perhaps you could talk a little about how you're manoeuvring some of the security issues and about the challenges we faced when we were in Centre Block and how, hopefully, they will be remedied.

[Rob Wright]

I'm going to talk at a high level to a certain extent.

First, there's a layered approach. Every building sits within a broader security perspective.

Over the past number of years, efforts have been made to create greater security around the movement of vehicles, for example. The vehicle screening facility and bollards have been implemented.

Phase one of the visitor welcome centre is all about ensuring that the public goes through proper security screening. Phase two of the visitor welcome centre will apply that to the Centre Block and the East Block as a critical security initiative.

Cameras are also integrated throughout the facilities, as well as controls on doors to ensure that those can all be managed and locked down as required. There are control points at all of the exterior doors in facilities such as the West Block.

Then we look at elements such as hardening the building as required, ballistic in some areas, as well as efforts at cybersecurity and speech security to ensure that if you are having a private conversation in a room, it is indeed a private conversation.

All those elements, which previously didn't exist in the Centre Block, will be applied as we move forward in its modernization.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I can imagine that it's very interesting and complex.

One of the things that there has been some discussion around is the visitor welcome centre area. Hopefully by building that up, it will also increase the ability and capacity for better security, as you mentioned.

However, I'm just wondering what other functions there are in the vision for this. I know there are three different sizes. The large size is everything you could imagine in terms of meeting rooms. I'm curious about how that's going to work. I know this is really boring, but if you've ever renovated anything, one of the biggest issues you have is storage and where you put things. I understand that part of that welcome centre, in the bigger vision, will include storage. But if that's not going to work out, what are you planning around storage?

[Rob Wright]

I'll address the three options at a very high level, before passing this to Ms. Garrett for some greater detail.

In the smaller option, first, security is there, plus back-of-House functionality. The medium-size one, on top of security, adds the library program and the visitor experience. Then the largest, on top of these two key objectives, adds some greater core parliamentary space, larger committee rooms for the Senate, for example, as well as meeting space for the House of Commons.

I will ask Ms. Garrett to add some greater detail.

[Jennifer Garrett]

We basically have three different sizes of the visitor welcome centre. In fact, just to supplement—not duplicate, for the sake of time—we really are at an in-between stages in terms of the libraries program, if I could start there.

As to the small and the medium options, we're talking about the difference between a capability that just supports tours, or just putting back the capability that exists now. The medium one, though, provides for a curated or alternate experience for visitors coming to the Hill.

In the small and medium options, there are no committee rooms, as they pertain to the House of Commons. The committee room function is driven by Senate of Canada requirements, just to be very clear about that.

What we're also talking about—and for all options, it's consistent—is a safe, secure screening capability that is outside the footprint of the Centre Block building proper.

Finally, for all of them, focusing on the small and the medium options, we're talking about making sure that we have one integrated parliamentary campus and that buildings such as the West Block, the Centre Block and the East Block, regardless of where parliamentarians are in the parliamentary complex, are connected and can work in a cohesive manner or are functioning physically throughout that building complex. It becomes essentially one connected facility.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Ms. Garrett.

Mr. Turnbull.