Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 17th, 2020

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

There have been some comments and questions as to whether it's really even needed to have a commission like this. I know that you noted that the United States has a commission. I believe that Australia has one too.

I don't want to put you on the spot to provide more examples, but would your office be able to table a document that provides information to us on the other countries that have those?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Of course. We'd be happy to. I could see on my screen that Al Sutherland was nodding. He might know which major democracies have a permanent or ongoing structure. We'd be more than happy to table with your chair for all members the best information we have on that, and I would ask Privy Council to do that.

Al, can you, off the top of your head, name some of those countries?

[Allen Sutherland]

There are scores of them. I think we can provide a fuller list.

I think one of the bigger points is that, when the debates are run the way they were in 2019, the outreach and the number of Canadians engaged went up significantly, by almost a factor of two, and when you add that to the number of different formats that we used, the debates commission was successful in adding social media platform engagement. They really have quite an impressive package of engagement for Canadians. This makes it significantly different than what existed before.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you.

The committee also did a study on the commission. We had witnesses from many other commissions around the world come to testify as to what the best practices were. That's something you might also be interested in, looking back at that study and the report.

Thank you for sending us the information regarding that.

Monsieur Therrien, you have two and a half minutes.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. LeBlanc, you made a list of recommendations, which I read. I'm trying to imagine the impact they will have, but I'd like your opinion on this.

What are the implications of the eventual implementation of these recommendations? Will the costs be higher?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Are you talking about the recommendations related to the structure of the commission?

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

There are 10 or 12 recommendations in your report, and I've read them. I didn't see any implications, but I want to be sure.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I want to make sure I've understood your question so I can answer it accurately.

Are you talking about Commissioner Johnston's 10 recommendations?

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Yes, they're in your report.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

That's the report of the commission, of Mr. Johnston.

Of course, the Privy Council has consulted with Mr. Johnston to ensure that the amounts we have included in the estimates you're now considering were the right ones. Mr. Sutherland can give you a precise answer and assure you that the amounts allocated for these estimates are adequate. When I saw the recommendations, I saw it as a structural increase rather than a financial increase. The recommendations are mostly structural in nature.

Mr. Sutherland, do I have that right?

[Allen Sutherland]

Yes, you are right.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Okay. Thank you.

Within this commission, how many full-time public service employees are there who do the work that needs to be done between elections?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Are you talking about full-time employees assigned to the commission?

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

That's right.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

We'll be able to provide you with that specific information.

Last summer, I ran into Michel Cormier, the commission's former executive director, in New Brunswick. He wasn't employed at the commission anymore, as the commission no longer existed. I don't know what his status was, whether he was full-time or part-time before the election, but I see Mr. Sutherland shaking his head.

That said, it is our pleasure to provide you with the number of full-time and part-time employees, Mr. Therrien.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Okay.

I'd also like to know if there are any outside employees, in other words contract employees. Could you provide us with that information? It would be greatly appreciated.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I will be pleased to give you that information.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

I must admit that I'm very happy to see you doing so well. I've known you for a long time through television, but I've only known you personally for a short time. I've always appreciated your style and enthusiasm. I'm very happy to see you in such good shape, and I wish you even more energy for the future, Mr. LeBlanc.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

You're very generous.

I'm an example of the magic of your Quebec health care system. I'm very grateful, and I will be an admirer of the Quebec health care system for the rest of my life.

Thank you very much.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you.

Mr. Blaikie.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I just wanted to return to some of the previous conversation around the recommendations that the Chief Electoral Officer had made. I'm wondering if the government has a sense of a timeline for presenting legislative changes. Is the government looking favourably on the CEO's recommendations? Will you essentially be presenting what was in his annex, or is the government contemplating different changes beyond what was recommended by the Chief Electoral Officer?

There's a question about timeline and then there's a question about the substance of the changes.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I think all parliamentarians should be concerned about what we can do collectively in the very short term to get a consensus that would allow us to make the legislative amendments suggested by the Chief Electoral Officer in his report. Your committee is a central focus for this work and I know you are seized with that now. The government is also obviously working in parallel to ensure that we're in a position to have legislation ready. We have not made final decisions. There's been no cabinet decision around drafting instructions and so on, although the preparatory work has obviously been done since we saw the Chief Electoral Officer's report.

I'm prepared to offer my own personal views because, as I said, the government hasn't made a decision, cabinet hasn't made a decision yet.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I would be happy to hear your views but just before you offer those, one of the things that conduce best towards consensus is time. I'm wondering, then, if it would be a goal of the government to table legislation no later than December 11, so that if we're not able to pass anything before we rise for the Christmas break, we might at least be able to contemplate the government's proposal over the break and be ready to take action when we come back in January.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Again, your question, I think, is bang on. I would certainly be happy to work towards that goal. It's obviously easier for us, I'll be honest, if we have the benefit of your committee's report, if we have the benefit of your committee's deliberations, although we clearly follow the sessions that your committee has been having looking at the Chief Electoral Officer's report. I certainly take your comment that time is always helpful in building a consensus.

I have a very quick observation because I know we'll be out of time. I think the Chief Electoral Officer was clever and smart in asking for changes that would be time-limited and that would be directed at an election potentially in the context of a global pandemic. That's something that should concern all of us, and every Canadian.

I like the idea of expanding accessibility. Some of the things around long-term care homes, expanded hours for voting, again, in principle for me personally, make a lot of sense. I know your committee's had hearings on this. I've heard some colleagues talk about getting rid of the election day on Monday itself. We haven't made a decision. Election day being a Monday, having potential voting the weekend before in order to, again, reduce some of the public health concerns around crowded voting spaces.... Maybe I'm of the old gang, but having an election on a Monday is something that I've always found to be a happy and positive tradition. But we would look obviously to a consensus in Parliament.

The objective of expanding voting hours, making it more accessible in a safe way to people, particularly vulnerable people in long-term homes, and giving the Chief Electoral Officer additional tools to make adjustments, as he must in the context of an election in a pandemic that we couldn't have even contemplated eight years ago, seems to me to be very reasonable. I hope we can work with your committee quickly on that legislative change. I like the idea of people having a chance to consider it during their Christmas recess, so I'll try to work back from that December 11 date.