Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 24th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 12 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

I'd like to start the meeting by providing some information following the motion that was adopted by the House on Wednesday, September 23. The committee is now sitting in a hybrid format, meaning that members can participate either virtually by video conference or appear in person. All members, regardless of their method of participation, will be counted for the purposes of quorum.

Witnesses must always appear virtually. Today, we do have the House administration in who are physically present. Thank you.

The committee's power is limited to sittings by the priority use of House of Commons resources, as determined by the whips. Any questions must be decided by recorded vote. Just to let you all know, today we will be voting on the main estimates and the supplementary estimates.

The committee can deliberate in camera, provided it takes into account the potential risks to confidentiality inherent in such deliberations with remote participants.

Today's proceedings are going to be made available via the House of Commons website.

As a reminder to everyone—although I think everyone here is probably an expert at this now—the entirety of the committee will not be shown on the website, only the member who is currently speaking. I think it's good to have that in mind.

You can use any of the choices of “floor”, “English” or “French” on your screen, for those who are participating virtually.

Hopefully will it continue to work, through some innovation, that we no longer have to switch those choices on the screen when we're switching the languages we're speaking. That is fantastic because it definitely held things up in the past.

Remember to speak slowly and clearly and also to wear your headset. It has been very difficult on the interpreters, so let's be mindful of that. It's mandatory to wear the headset, so please let me know if there's some kind of problem and you can't receive a headset. I just heard there was an issue. We'll try to help as best as possible to facilitate, if any issues arise where you can't get access to a headset with a boom mike.

Wait until you're called upon by me to begin speaking. Unmute your own mike and then you're going to have to mute your own mike; it's not done automatically. Please remember to do that. If there are any points of order, just unmute your mike and state that you have a point of order.

If anyone wants to speak to that point of order, then please use the “raise hand” function at the bottom of your screen.

Today is meeting number 12, Tuesday, November 24, and we're going to be meeting from 11:00 to 1:30. We're going to have two panels.

On the first panel we have appearing before us, we have the Speaker of the House, the Honourable Anthony Rota, and of course the Clerk of the House, Mr. Robert. Thank you for being with us again.

We also have Monsieur Patrice and Mr. Paquette, as well as Parliamentary Protective Service within this panel.

Welcome to the director of Parliamentary Protective Service.

There are quite a few participants in this meeting. Just to let you know, there are other House of Commons administrative staff here in case there are some questions that the Speaker or Monsieur Robert cannot answer—although I find it hard to believe that there would be many questions where you or Mr. Leahy or Mr. Patrice would not be able to answer. There are others to supplement and help out, so we get the most fulsome answers possible.

In case anybody doesn't know, Mr. Paquette is the chief financial officer, because we're dealing with the estimates.

We will start with the Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, may we have your opening remarks.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Speaker of the House of Commons]

Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the committee.

Good morning.

It's a pleasure to be here with you today and to see all of you again, whether in person or virtually.

The past nine months have been, to say the least, challenging. We members of Parliament, our staff, and the employees of the administration who support us have all had to deal with professional and personal trials even as we worked to continue the business of Parliament in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic.

For the past several years, the administration has invested in technology infrastructure, recognizing the importance of providing members with the ability to connect to their constituents and their staff, and giving administration employees the means to stay in touch with the organization's network from anywhere at any time. As a result, the investment made by the administration enabled both parliamentarians and employees to be securely and reliably connected to the House of Commons and to each other. These investments formed the building blocks for the hybrid system we're using in the second session of the 43rd Parliament. Now we all rely on the technology, and I'm grateful to the talented and dedicated employees who have helped us, as we are doing today.

As Speaker of the House of Commons, I will be presenting the main estimates and supplementary estimates (B) for fiscal year 2020-21 for the House of Commons and the Parliamentary Protective Service.

I am joined by officials from both organizations. As mentioned earlier by the chair, representing the House administration, we have Charles Robert, Clerk of the House of Commons; Michel Patrice, deputy clerk, administration; and Daniel Paquette, chief financial officer.

From PPS, I am joined by Kevin Leahy, the director of the service; Robert Graham, administrative and personnel officer; and Antonia Francis, director of human resource services.

I will begin by presenting the key elements and the key themes of the 2020-21 main estimates for the House of Commons. These estimates total $516.4 million, representing a net increase of $13 million, or 2.6%, compared with 2019-20's main estimates.

To start, the funding of $4.7 million for cost of living increases covers requirements for the House administration, members' and House officers' budgets, as well as the statutory increase of the members' sessional allowance, and additional salaries.

The annual budget adjustments for members and House officers are based on the consumer price index. Cost of living increases are essential to our recruitment effort and to those of the House administration.

Returning to major investments, the Board of Internal Economy approved an increase of $4.4 million in this area.

This funding supports new HR advisory services for members, as well as digital office solution introduced for the 43rd Parliament. This solution facilitates collaboration and greatly enhances the ability of members and their staff to find relevant information and securely access their work from any device. We have seen how much more we are relying on these functionalities.

Another focus for major investments, which this committee has seen in the past, is the funding requirements to support information technology systems and assets when they are transferred to the House of Commons within the context of the long-term vision and plan.

I would now like to move to the increase of $2.3 million for the adjustments for members and House officers. This comprises the funding for the addition of a recognized party following the last general election. Funds were also required for the House of Commons contributions to members' pension plans. These costs are contributed by the Treasury Board. Similarly, the main estimates account for adjustment to the contributions for the House of Commons' employee benefit plan.

While the main estimates had originally identified funding for a parliamentary assembly and conference, it will come as no surprise that the 29th annual session of OSCE Parliamentary Assembly has been cancelled and that the 65th Commonwealth Parliamentary Conference has been postponed until August 2021. As a result, this funding has been used to reduce the funding request in the supplementary estimates (B).

Looking more closely at supplementary estimates (B), our first line item confirms that temporary funding in the amount of $16.3 has been sought for the operating budget carry-forward. The board's policy allows members, House officers and administration to carry forward unspent funds from one fiscal year to the next up to a maximum of 5% of the operating budget in their main estimates.

In addition, we sought $5.5 million in 2020-21 to fund economic increases for House administration employees. Further, $816,000 is allocated for contributions to employee benefits plans.

I will now move to the 2020-21 main estimates for the Parliamentary Protective Service. For the 2020-21 fiscal year, the service's budget request totalled $92.6 million, which represents an increase of $1.66 million from the previous year. This amount served to cover economic increases and wage adjustments related to collective bargaining decisions. It should be noted that the service is not seeking additional funding through the 2020-21 supplementary estimates process.

Since the service's last appearance before this committee in April 2019, it has made significant and sustained progress on further stabilizing its budgets. As such, the service will not be requesting an increase to its appropriation for fiscal year 2021-22 efforts. As the function previously performed by the RCMP has been progressively transitioned to the service, the organization has become more efficient overall.

At five years of age, the service has advanced through a series of important developmental phases, from the tactical to the strategic. While it was created through the amalgamation of previously existing services, it is successfully managing the integration of the many systems and processes that it inherited and it is making significant progress towards unifying its workforce. The service has matured into an organization that applies strategic and business planning best practices, implements financial safeguard mechanisms and resource optimization initiatives, and appreciates the importance of diversity, inclusion, well-being and mental health.

The public funds made available to the service continue to be well aligned with the mandate and priorities of ensuring the physical safety of parliamentarians, employees and visitors on Parliament Hill and in the parliamentary precinct.

Madam Chair, this concludes my overview of the main and supplementary estimates for the House of Commons and Parliamentary Protective Service. We would be pleased to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We'll start our first round of six-minute questions with Mr. Lukiwski.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair and Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Robert, it is good to see you.

For years I used to be on this committee back in a former life, at least in a former government. For nine years I was on PROC, so quite regularly we had appearances by speakers and House administration personnel, but this is my first chance to greet both of you. I'm glad that you're here with us. I go all the way back to the days of William Corbett, so I've been around. I've seen my share of speakers and clerks, but I'm very pleased to have both of you here today to answer some questions.

My first question would be posed to Monsieur Robert, and it's more of a curiosity than anything else. It seems to me that there are a number of new faces at the Clerk's table in the House of Commons, although it's difficult to tell with everyone wearing masks. Is this normal at the start of a new Parliament? Are we seeing more turnover of clerks and personnel than we have in the recent past?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

There is an issue with the sound; it's not connecting. It sounds as though you're speaking from very far away. Could you test the sound?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Justin Vaive]

Madam Chair, there seems to be a problem with the Clerk's audio. We'll look into it.

Could you suspend for a minute or so?

[Charles Robert, Clerk of the House of Commons]

Can you hear me now?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Yes, I can hear you now, Mr. Robert.

[Charles Robert]

All right. Again, I'm technology-challenged, so you have to bear with me.

I don't think, in fact, there has been a significant turnover in the staff that you see at the table. There have been some retirements in recent months. There have been competitions to replace those people. I don't think it's much more than that at the moment.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

You would just put that down to normal attrition, I assume, then, sir.

[Charles Robert]

Yes, sir. That's right.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Perhaps you could expand upon what some of the challenges are, and the costs associated with those challenges, in recruitment and training. I'm assuming that if you're looking for a new procedural clerk—whether it be for committee or at the table—it's not as simple as just walking down to a local job fair and looking for interested candidates, or putting an ad on ZipRecruiter. You're talking about people who have a highly developed skill set that would be unique, probably, to an environment such as the House of Commons.

How challenging is it to invest time—and what costs are incurred—trying to find qualified people? Of course, I hope you would be able to retain those people for an extended period of time to ensure some continuity.

What challenges do you find, Mr. Robert? Could you share those with the committee? Have you found it difficult to find qualified personnel in years past and do you currently?

[Charles Robert]

I will give you a short answer and then turn it over to André, who is the deputy clerk of procedure. In fact, I think in the House of Commons, we have actually built quite a deep pool of talent. For recruitment purposes, we tend to select people from inside. In fact, it's a way to acknowledge the work done by those who want to make a career here and advance over the course of a number of years.

I'll let André finish with a more comprehensive reply.

[André Gagnon, Deputy Clerk, Procedure, House of Commons]

Good morning, Mr. Lukiwski. I hope you're hearing me well.

I will add to what the Clerk has just mentioned. In terms of the number of table officers, what you've probably seen is that we have increased the number of table officer threes—we call them TO3s—because of the virtual proceedings. We've added a certain number of other individuals who come and support us in house. That's probably why you've noticed a couple more individuals in the House. Those individuals are either managers at Procedural Services or very experienced procedural clerks.

In terms of recruiting procedural clerks, yes, we've been lucky enough to be able to recruit a certain number of procedural clerks over the years, and we're quite lucky to have extensive retention capabilities. Why is that? That is because we offer not only good training opportunities but also different career opportunities.

You've probably seen, since the beginning of your career here, some procedural clerks working as committee clerks, working in International Affairs or working at the Journals Branch. We're quite lucky with the work that the team does.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you very much.

I suspect that some of our new MPs, who have been elected only recently, have missed out on some of the activities of the table clerks, which I've found to be extremely interesting and almost entertaining over years past, particularly at the start of a new Parliament. If you have a new table clerk who calls the vote for the first time—and having 338 MPs stand up, deliver their names and riding names sometimes perfectly—it always ends up with a big round of applause, well-deserved from all Parliamentarians. That's something I miss, quite frankly, in a virtual Parliament.

Thank you for the answers and thank you for expanding on the challenges you've found on the recruitment and training end.

Madam Clerk, how much time do I have left? I do have a question or two left for both the Speaker and Mr. Robert.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

You have a little over a minute.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you.

I want to turn my attention now to you, Speaker Rota, on security supports for members of Parliament.

We have heard recent reports that new security supports will be delivered to members of Parliament. I think all of this, or much of it, at least, came about in light of the news report we heard a few months ago about how Mr. Singh was confronted—I won't say accosted—on the streets by a citizen as he was walking to Parliament. Could either you or Mr. Robert expand upon what security supports members of Parliament may be able to expect in the coming months, if any?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I'll start off, then hand it over to Mr. Robert.

The security of members is something that has been a concern since first being elected. We've had a number of meetings, not only with our own security people, but also with legislatures and speakers around the world, such as England, New Zealand and other places where we have been able to learn from each other, which is important. We want to make sure that all of our members are safe and that we do everything that we can to protect them.

I'm not sure if I'm going to hand over to Mr. Robert or Mr. Leahy.

Our Sergeant-at-Arms, Pat McDonell, will take it from here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you.

Good morning, Sergeant. Could you answer quickly, please?

[Patrick McDonell, Sergeant-at-Arms and Corporate Security Officer, House of Commons]

BOIE has approved additional security measures for members. That's in line with best practices. We would be better off giving the details of those security measures in camera.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

That was very quick. Thank you very much.

Next we have Mr. Alghabra, for six minutes.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

It's still morning, so good morning everyone, Speaker, Clerk and staff.

I do want to take a second to express my gratitude and appreciation to the staff and the entire team of the House of Commons at all levels for their amazing accommodation and adjustment during this pandemic. The whole machinery had to turn on a dime and they did it very quickly and professionally—from IT to cleaning services to other staff. I want to take a moment to acknowledge that. Whether it was during the committee of the whole to now a virtual sitting of Parliament, it's worthy of acknowledgement and appreciation.

This is a question for either the Speaker or the Clerk. I'm interested in knowing an update on the voting app that we heard about.

[Charles Robert]

I think it would actually go to Stéphan Aubé.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Okay.

You may want to lower your mike.

[Stéphan Aubé, Chief Information Officer, Digital Services and Real Property, House of Commons]

Thank you for the question.

As you know, since September we've been working to develop a tool that could allow the members to vote.

We're still in consultation with the whips of each of the recognized parties. We've made a presentation to them over the last weeks. We're awaiting some feedback from them on some key functionalities that would be required from them. Once we finalize that—hopefully in the next couple of weeks, if the decision is put forward by all the parties—we will be able to proceed with the onboarding of members, so that we can start training and planning some simulations if the decision is made to go forward with this, sir.