Evidence of meeting #9 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was elections.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
I think it's really Marilyn Gladu playing the role of Todd Doherty.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Thank you so much to the witnesses for your testimony today.
Today Elections Canada and federal guidelines say that voting stations have to be accessible, but I had examples in my riding, even, and in some of the neighbouring ridings, of buildings that had been chosen as polling stations not being accessible.
Ms. Smith, have you heard of or experienced similar things?
1:50 p.m.
Past Chairperson, Council of Canadians with Disabilities
For sure. We know there are sometimes restrictions in communities when polling stations that are selected are not accessible, and usually people then receive an alternative spot to vote. I strongly encourage that all spaces be accessible. It can help people with disabilities, moms with strollers, the aging population and people who have invisible disabilities if they are just accessible always. However, I know that finding a large enough location is sometimes a challenge, and therefore those are there.
I had one suggestion around that at one point. There could be an easy-access line or a chat on the website where people could easily access somebody and say, “Hey, it's not accessible. I need support right now. Where do I go? How can I vote?”
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
It's an excellent suggestion.
Ms. Bergeron, how many adult Canadians are blind?
1:50 p.m.
President, CNIB Guide Dogs, Vice-President, International Affairs, CNIB Foundation, Canadian National Institute for the Blind
That's a very good question. We say there are about 1.5 million Canadians who are blind or partially sighted. The majority of them would be adults. It would probably be in the area of at least one million, maybe 1.3 million or somewhere in that area. I don't have the exact number, but yes, there are about 1.5 million.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
You talked about the phone-in voting. B.C. did something, and you mentioned Australia. Were there differences in the way they verified and ID'd the vote?
1:50 p.m.
President, CNIB Guide Dogs, Vice-President, International Affairs, CNIB Foundation, Canadian National Institute for the Blind
Yes. It was a very interesting process. I don't know if Jewelles had somebody explain it and did it herself.
In the phone-in experience, you don't need to do anything in advance. You just phone in. You talk to someone who identifies you through your various identifications, such as your social insurance number, your address, things that only you would know. Once you are verified as the individual who is there to vote, they pass you over to another individual with whom you cast your ballot. You tell them the vote. They mark it. They hand the ballot to a third person, who then confirms to you who you voted for.
The difference in that process from what I go through when I'm on site is that the person who is verifying the ballot knows who I am. They know my name, so the privacy is gone. This way, the initial person knows who you are, but when they pass you over, that next person has no idea who you are. It's still a secret.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
What do you think about the idea of having, at the returning office, the ability for people who are blind to go in and be taken to a private place where they can actually say the vote after they're verified?
1:55 p.m.
President, CNIB Guide Dogs, Vice-President, International Affairs, CNIB Foundation, Canadian National Institute for the Blind
Yes, that would be a great option, although, as I said, sight loss is such a spectrum. I'm not sure how everybody is doing the actual marking of their ballot. That could be possible.
Again, a lot of these people working at the polling stations are people who have seen you in the community, because most of them live in the community, so there's an identification. Over the phone, they don't have a clue who you are.
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Ms. Smith, one commonality between group homes for people who are disabled and long-term care homes.... We're talking about solutions that might work there for elections in a pandemic. If there were rapid testing available, then in the mobile poll idea, somebody from Elections Canada who has a negative COVID test would then go to the home to facilitate the voting. Do you think that's a good idea?
1:55 p.m.
Past Chairperson, Council of Canadians with Disabilities
It's not my area of expertise.
I know you had earlier witnesses. I was listening to them while they were telling you about some of the options, and I do think the rapid test is amazing. I think the crossover potential.... I really liked the suggestion that one of your earlier witnesses had of having a different person go to each one, rather than one person going to multiple spaces, just to alleviate that potential for infection.
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Yes, I think that is absolutely true.
Is there anything else you would recommend to this committee? I'll give you an open-ended question. Is there something you wanted to say but didn't yet have a chance to say?
1:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota
That's all the time we have, Marilyn. Perhaps we'll be able to somehow squeeze that into the next round.
Mr. Turnbull is next.
1:55 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Thanks, Madam Chair.
I'm really grateful to have another opportunity to ask a few more questions.
Ms. Smith, in her opening remarks, talked about using the principles of universal design when considering polling stations, and how those would be organized spatially and how they would be much different, potentially, in a pandemic. I wonder whether those same principles could be used when we look at redesigning the mail-in ballot process.
I know you've made several suggestions about this already, but I'd be interested to hear what that would look like and what that would mean from a timing perspective, a process perspective, and how those mail-in ballots could be streamlined. We've heard from quite a few witnesses that they're not very easy to use right now, and I think there needs to be improvement there. Without anticipating your response, I'd love to hear your suggestions on that, Ms. Smith. I'd be happy to hear from Ms. Bergeron as well.
1:55 p.m.
Past Chairperson, Council of Canadians with Disabilities
I like the option that was mentioned by Diane, which was having the fillable PDF that is printable. I think that helps with a lot of the challenges experienced. I personally have dyslexia, and sometimes fonts can be a real issue for me. I have a little bit of anxiety about whether I read that or wrote that correctly, so I like the idea of having the fillable PDFs that you can print and mail in as one option.
Again, there's nothing about us without us. We need to have them tested ahead of time by people with various disabilities to see if they work and what the difficulties are, and then go back and make sure that they're as accessible as possible.
1:55 p.m.
President, CNIB Guide Dogs, Vice-President, International Affairs, CNIB Foundation, Canadian National Institute for the Blind
When we were looking at this before with Elections Canada, we found that having the PDF is a good solution. As long as it works with the PC, the iOS and different types of screen readers, and as long as it's accessible and can be accessed through Braille displays—which CNIB can certainly help with—it would allow me to read all of the information and check the box independently. It would allow me to make sure that I've marked it properly, and then, you would leave enough space at the bottom. As a person with sight loss, it makes me a little bit upset when I have to sign a document on the line, but the line is not tactile. Either a tactile line or just signing anywhere on the bottom of the page would be helpful.
Things like that are simple solutions. It's not going to work for everybody, but it's certainly going to give a much better option for some of us who would be able to access that option.
1:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota
Thank you, Ms. Bergeron.
That's all of the time we have, unfortunately. I know that it's been an interesting panel. On behalf of the whole committee and all of the members, we really do appreciate your presence here today, Ms. Bergeron and Ms. Smith.
That's our third panel. We had a productive meeting with three panels.
I just wanted to let you know that on November 17, we have the meeting with Minister LeBlanc. Next, we have Elections Canada on November 19, and then on November 24 we have the Speaker, House administration and PPS. We have a lot of work ahead of us, and then we're going to continue with the study after that.
We weren't able to squeeze in a meeting on November 18 in the evening. We were trying to get the extra time slot, which originally we were told we would be able to secure, but then it turned out that a lot of the committees are now also receiving two time slots a week rather than one, so we weren't able to secure that.
I'll do my best to fit in everything and try to get this study done as quickly as possible. I did have a conversation with the Chief Electoral Officer again, and I just wanted to inform you that he is really eager to have some insight as to the recommendations that he has made to the House and wants to know whether we can get some feedback to him on that as soon as possible, because they want to be prepared in all circumstances. That would be helpful to him, so he wanted me to let you know.
That's it for today. We will meet on November 17, and I will see you all then. Take care.
The meeting is adjourned.
