Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 12th, 2020

[The Clerk]

Yes, Madam Chair. I will just do a quick sound check.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Madam Chair, you're good to go to start the next panel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Okay. Fantastic. Thank you so much.

Now we have, from the Council of Canadians with Disabilities, Jewelles Smith, the past chair. From the Canadian National Institute for the Blind, we have Ms. Diane Bergeron. We've had her before at this committee as well.

Welcome to both witnesses, and welcome back to Ms. Bergeron. We look forward to hearing your testimony. You both have five-minute opening statements.

We'll start with Ms. Smith.

[Jewelles Smith, Past Chairperson, Council of Canadians with Disabilities]

Good morning, Madam Chair and committee members. I guess it's good afternoon to some of you. Thank you for inviting the Council of Canadians with Disabilities to appear before the committee.

The UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, in article 29, “Participation in political and public life”, requires states parties to ensure “that voting procedures, facilities and materials are appropriate, accessible and easy to understand and use; protecting the rights of persons with disabilities...to stand for elections”.

These rights are not altered by a pandemic, and we are confident that by following principles of universal design, the duty to accommodate and “nothing about us without us”, it will be possible to ensure that voters with disabilities are not disenfranchised by the COVID-19 pandemic or discriminated against by any new barriers that would make voting more inaccessible.

During the pandemic, accessible communication to people with disabilities concerning access to the electoral process is very important. A twin-track approach to communication would be beneficial, focused on successful communication directly from Elections Canada to people with disabilities and on communications to people with disabilities by their own organizations on behalf of Elections Canada.

It would be helpful to people with disabilities if Elections Canada increased its capacity for direct communication with people with disabilities so that voters with disabilities are not frustrated or discouraged by not having their inquiries answered in a timely manner. During the pandemic, people have questions about how their needs will be met, and it is discouraging and frustrating when these inquiries go unanswered.

It is recognized that if an election is called during the pandemic, it will be necessary to have appropriate distancing measures and sanitizing practices along with various forms of PPE. A disability and human rights lens must be applied to how these are rolled out.

When constructing the layout of polling stations that conform to COVID-19 safety measures, the principles of universal design need to be followed, and design and practice testing by qualified people with disabilities needs to take place to ensure that the design and practices do not include barriers to voters with various types of disabilities.

Sanitizing agents that do not exacerbate environmental illnesses, allergies, asthma and other conditions also need to be used.

Some individuals, because of their disabilities, are not able to wear a mask or face covering, so these voters with disabilities need to be accommodated at the polling station or at an Elections Canada office. Accommodations need to be available both for voters with disabilities and for employees with disabilities.

Because of the need for physical distancing, at some polls it may be necessary to limit the number of people in a polling station. As it is difficult for some people with disabilities to stand for prolonged periods of time, it may be necessary to have as an accommodation a priority access line for people for whom long waits would be a barrier to participation.

The application process for the mail-in ballot does not include an Internet-based application option. It would be helpful to have this type of option added, because at this time, those who are trying to avoid exposure to COVID-19 may want to avoid going to a postal box, and not everyone has a home fax machine. Further, an option for phone-in voting is highly recommended.

There are concerns about how a voter must establish their ID for voting. A voucher can vouch for only one person. With the number of people who are seeking to limit their personal contacts, it may be difficult for people to find someone willing to go out in public to vouch for them. To alleviate this situation, vouchers should be allowed to vouch for more than one person.

Elections Canada hires Canadians to work during federal elections. For example, there are community relations officers for accessibility. It is recommended that Elections Canada hire additional community relations officers for accessibility to ensure that new barriers are not created as the COVID-19 response is developed. It is also highly recommended that additional communications personnel be hired by Elections Canada to ensure that there is sufficient messaging to people with disabilities about access to the electoral process during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Additional outreach needs to be done for Canadians with disabilities who would be interested in working for Elections Canada in these positions or other positions. This outreach should include information about how employees with disabilities would be accommodated during the pandemic.

The Council of Canadians with Disabilities would be open to working closely with Elections Canada on messaging voters with disabilities and on barrier prevention.

I thank you and I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Ms. Smith.

Go ahead, Ms. Bergeron.

[Diane Bergeron, President, CNIB Guide Dogs, Vice-President, International Affairs, CNIB Foundation, Canadian National Institute for the Blind]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'm Diane Bergeron, and I'm just going to ask for a second as I set up my adaptive equipment. As a person who's totally blind, I use various technologies to help me in my presentations.

I'm here on behalf of the Canadian National Institute for the Blind, known as the CNIB. There are approximately 1.5 million Canadians with sight loss. Sight loss is a spectrum. There's no one-size-fits-all approach to removing barriers for people with sight loss.

CNIB has been around for more than a hundred years, and during that time we've supported and provided assistance to people with sight loss. Now we're in this great world of the pandemic, a place that causes confusion and complications for everyone; and people with sight loss are no different in that situation, including in elections.

For over 90 years, CNIB has been advocating tirelessly for accessible elections. In the 1930s CNIB led the charge for the passage of the Blind Voters Act, which stopped the practice of a voter who was blind or partially sighted from sharing their vote with Elections Canada officials and party scrutineers vocally and out loud. Can you imagine not being able to vote in secret or independently?

We've come a long way, but barriers to our independence remain, and that includes in elections. CNIB has heard from Canadians with sight loss across the country in places where a pandemic election has taken place. In New Brunswick and Saskatchewan, we heard from the community about anxiety and frustration over how to independently mark a mail-in ballot without the accessibility tools that are offered in an election, such as a magnifier or Braille ballots. While many people who are blind or partially sighted may have access to assistive devices to help with voting, it should not be assumed that everyone does. It should be mentioned that the tools provided by Elections Canada do not fully provide independence for someone who is trying to vote who has a disability. It's more of a stopgap measure to assist in the voting process.

However, in British Columbia, there is a tool to help people with disabilities to vote independently, and it should be replicated by Elections Canada. Voting by phone has become a safe and independent way for someone with sight loss to vote without having to use an inaccessible paper ballot or without the assistance of a sighted guide. Elections BC and the government of Australia have implemented a system whereby those with disabilities are able to verify and mark a ballot by phone. Not only is this helpful in an pandemic in which a marginalized population is at greater risk of exposure, but it would also be another tool in the tool box to combat barriers to independent voting. In both instances, and to the best of our knowledge, there have been no instances of voter fraud or coercion.

This method of voting helps to eliminate another barrier that we have, which is to get to a polling location. Many who are blind or partially sighted must rely on a family member or friend to drive them to a polling location, or else take public transit. In rural or remote communities, this may prove to be more difficult because of the lack of public transit options.

If the government takes the suggestion of the electoral officer to move election day from a Monday to a Saturday or a Sunday, this also presents an issue, as many transit operators have reduced or eliminated service on weekends. Ride-sharing in taxis or Uber presents a financial barrier as well. Voting by phone would eliminate these barriers.

Again, I'd like to thank the committee for inviting me to testify on behalf of CNIB. I'd be happy to take questions from members of the committee to better explain the voting process for someone with sight loss. I've gone through these processes myself, and I know how difficult it is when you have a disability to go in, be independent, and exercise your right to be able to vote independently and in secret without having to give out information to others.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Ms. Bergeron and Ms. Smith. That was very valuable, and of course we don't want to create any more barriers as we're trying to make sure that an election can be run safely.

We're going to start with six minutes from Ms. Vecchio, please.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you very much, and a special thank you to Jewelles and Diane. This is a very personal way of looking at things, because we're talking about Canadians in general, but what you're bringing to the table are factors that need to be considered as we're moving forward, because it's so vital that every Canadian has the opportunity to vote. Thanks for bringing forward the concerns and barriers that not only you but people you work with are dealing with.

To begin, Jewelles, I really liked that idea of the priority access for the disabled, making sure that there are appropriate lines and things like that. That is one of my greatest concerns. If we're asking seniors or people with disabilities to go out and vote and there's a two-hour lineup, how can we expect them to do so?

Have you seen priority access being used in elections so far, and if so, what's been the response?

[Jewelles Smith]

I haven't seen it used. We did just have an election here in B.C. I was able to vote by mail. I have an autoimmune condition as well as a mobility disability, so I accessed that.

Not having seen it, I don't have that personal experience, but I have seen it work in other places. For example, when I was in Europe and I went to a museum, I didn't have to stand in the two-hour lineup, which might then have meant that I could do only one floor of a museum because of my disability. It's been done in other spaces, and I really hope that this is taken into account.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Adopting that method and bringing it forward sounds so simple to me, so why would we not put that forward when it makes such sense?

As you're both indicating, transportation is definitely an issue as well. One thing I looked at was the uptick in mail-in ballots, which we heard about. We've seen that, and the Chief Electoral Officer is also anticipating a much higher mail-in ballot turnout.

I would like to start with Diane.

Diane, you were talking about these ballots. What are some of the things the CNIB would want us to consider on ballots for those who are visually impaired? For a mail-in ballot, what would be appropriate things for us to take into consideration so that the person receiving it would be able to use it?

[Diane Bergeron]

Thank you very much.

People with sight loss, as I said, are a spectrum. It's very important, with any ballots, to make sure that the print is very clear, that the text is very clean, that it has good colour contrast and that the print is large enough. That will really assist seniors and other individuals with partial sight.

Those of us who are blind have our Braille templates that we use in the elections right now. Mine really helps me, because I am able to mark my own ballot. What it doesn't allow me to do is to verify that I have marked my ballot correctly. At this moment, in our current situation, there is no way for someone who is totally blind to be able to mark it and verify it without having someone else assist them.

If you're going to do a mail-in ballot, one of the things that we were working on with Elections Canada was having an option to have a ballot sent to an individual through email as a fillable PDF, so they could fill it in on their computer, not online, print it off and then be able to put it in their envelope and sign it to send it back. A tactile indicator of where to sign would be extremely helpful.

CNIB can help during that process by setting up stations around the country in our various offices to allow people with sight loss to go in and use a computer to print off their ballot if they don't have the equipment at home.

Those are some of the ways we can help.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

That's very useful, Diane. Thank you so much. It sounds as though there's been a lot of groundwork and homework done on this beforehand and that these are things that we would be able to move forward with.

One of my concerns when we're talking about disabilities is that a lot of times when ballots are sent out, people are going to have to print in the name. On a special ballot, there may not be all the lists of official candidates until so many weeks into the campaign, and we're looking at time frames. My wheels are turning about what we can do on the computer, but what are some of the things...? In this situation, I'd say that we would probably have to make an election period longer so that we can make sure people get appropriate ballots.

Are there other things that we should take into consideration at that time as well, Diane?

[Diane Bergeron]

Yes, absolutely we are facing some of those issues around the templates and with ballots that aren't ready until just before the election. Given that we are working with organizations like CNIB and CCD and other disability groups, I'd think that there's a solution out there. We just need to work together to find it.

Having it tested by people with the disability that you are trying to accommodate is extremely important, because you won't know if it's going to be accurate and actually work unless you're right there testing it.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Absolutely.

Jewelles, I'll move over to you. We are talking not only about an election during this pandemic but also everyday situations that are impeding Canadians and those with disabilities right now because of the pandemic. I want to start with a bigger picture than moving into an election. What are some of the biggest challenges you're finding for people with disabilities during COVID-19?

[Jewelles Smith]

I did a review of WorkSafeBC and other responses to the pandemic through a disability lens and I realized there was not a consideration for people with disabilities in the set-ups that were created. There were no conversations with people with disabilities on how these clear plastic barriers would set up new barriers for us. Somebody with low vision might not be able to see them, for example. There are signs on floors that some people can't see, and many spaces don't accommodate wheelchairs, because they're not wide enough or the distancing doesn't allow for the space of a wheelchair.

I have a service animal. I have a lot of concerns about bringing my service animal into public spaces at this time. I know as well that people who use guide dogs have similar challenges. Those challenges are being communicated among the community so that we can figure these things out.

The biggest barrier I've seen is this rapid response with no consideration of our population. One in five Canadians lives with a disability, yet we were not consulted at all about all of these brand new things that just leapt up in society.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you so much to both Diane and Jewelles. You had so much to offer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you.

Mr. Turnbull is next.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thanks to Ms. Smith and Ms. Bergeron for being here. I really appreciate your perspective.

There are a lot of important facets to the elections process. We have to look through the disabilities lens and understand how to make the process more accessible. It goes without saying that we need to do this in normal times, but in COVID-19, it is even more important than ever. I find myself saying that a lot.

I have lots of questions.

I understand that both of you are on the advisory group for disability issues with Elections Canada. Is that correct?

[Jewelles Smith]

Yes.

[Diane Bergeron]

Yes. We both are.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

That's great.

What is your relationship with the Chief Electoral Officer? How are you being engaged in that process? Could you tell us whether you think it's satisfactory or if you think there needs to be more input, more meetings? How can that process be improved to make sure you have as much input as possible into the process?

Ms. Smith, do you want to go first?

[Jewelles Smith]

Sure, I'll go first.

Not specifically with the Chief Electoral Officer, but I've already been in contact extensively with the staff who engage with the accessibility committee. We are about to have our semi-annual meeting shortly. They also did a check-in with our committee over the summer on how things were going and on our thoughts if there were to be an election.

Another thing is that they've approached me to help put together a speaker's opportunity to talk about accessibility to voting in particular. We just went through this process in B.C., and they think it would be useful for government and for Elections Canada staff and returning officers to hear us. I feel we're very engaged.

I'll hand it over to Diane.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you.

[Diane Bergeron]

Thanks, Jewelles.

I would agree with and echo Jewelles's comments.

I find that Elections Canada has a really positive relationship with the committee. Although not every suggestion we put forward is possible, based on the fact that the legislation is there and that a lot of the suggestions we have would have would mean that you would have to open up the legislation to make some changes, Elections Canada is very creative in trying to do what they can to make sure accommodations can work within the boundaries of the legislation.

A key message there for me is that now that this is being looked at, maybe this is the time to open up that legislation and make those accommodations possible.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

That's great. Thank you for that. The point is well taken. Part of what this committee is considering in its interim report are some legislative changes, so I appreciate that.

I want to know why you say that. Are there specific elements of the flexibility required by Elections Canada that would help meet the needs of people who live with accessibility issues? Can you speak to that? Are there specific things that you think require legislative changes, from your perspective?