Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 13th, 2024

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.

Mr. McDonell, I want to pick up on the open-source check again and get some clarification on what would normally be done.

You mentioned an open-source check being done pertaining to physical security or threats to members, and not so much for background. You said that normally that would have been done.

In this rushed time frame, what were you not able to do in the vetting of the guests? Were you able to go through each guest for those threats? Would you normally have done more? What more would you normally have done in the time frame?

[Patrick McDonell]

Through you, Madam Chair, I must have misspoken, because normally we don't do reputational checks on any guests.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

But you had all the opportunity that.... It was a rushed time frame. Were you able to do your open-source check in the time frame you were provided?

[Patrick McDonell]

No. No open-source checks are ever done on any of the invitees for a joint address.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I want to go back to comments the former Speaker made to CTV Northern Ontario about a “fine-tooth comb”. The former Speaker said, “Normally, it goes to the Prime Minister's Office and they go through it with a fine-tooth comb, and then the invitation goes out from protocol.”

I'm trying to figure it out. The former Speaker is saying there is a “fine-tooth comb” process here, and I'm still struggling to understand. In this case, he's saying the Prime Minister's Office had the list.

You alluded to this before, Mr. Janse.

I'm a bit curious about the document production we received over the course of the last couple of months or so. If the Prime Minister's Office was not given a complete list of invitees, how is it possible that on September 20 there was a text message exchange between a parliamentary protocol coordinator and the Prime Minister's outreach adviser about a certain individual who was invited, who was on a Conservative guest list? They were inquiring why they had been invited and saying it wasn't on their list.

How did they know? I'm a bit confused about how they would know a Conservative guest was invited if they didn't have the list.

[Nancy Anctil]

I can add something.

Quite often, there are guests who appear on more than one list, and that's what we do. Often there are guests on the Conservative list as well as the Liberal or NDP list. We advise when somebody is on more than one list.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

My point is this: If it wasn't on the Prime Minister's Office's list, according to them in terms of what happened here, how would they know a member was on it? They said it wasn't on their list, but they were aware of somebody else. It seems to me a little suspicious. The former Speaker said it goes to the Prime Minister's Office and there's “a fine-tooth comb”. We have a text message exchange that says it wasn't on their list, but they knew an individual had been invited on somebody else's list.

It makes me wonder why the Prime Minister's Office was aware of that, if the claim was that they didn't have the list and didn't do anything.

[Nancy Anctil]

I would need to look at the text you're referring to in order to know exactly what name they're talking about.

However, I can assure you the list was not shared with the Prime Minister's Office. It's been the practice since I've been the chief of protocol. For the last six years, we have not shared the list with the Prime Minister's Office for addresses to Parliament.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Your office or the staff you work with had not shared it. Am I correct?

[Nancy Anctil]

Yes.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Another question I have is this: The documents we received say that on September 21, the following day—one day before the event—an email from the Sergeant-at-Arms' office went to Jason Ritchie regarding arranging parking for Mr. Hunka. It states he was “an honoured guest”—not just a guest, but an “honoured guest”.

What makes a guest honoured in the circumstance here?

[Patrick McDonell]

It's probably because the Speaker requested a parking spot from my staff, so my staff added the word “honoured” as a descriptor. It's nothing more than that.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

How many honoured guests were there, numbers-wise?

[Patrick McDonell]

That's the only one I'm aware of, in terms of asking for parking.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I'll go to that point where you get into this process of honoured guests and having that list.

There seems to be a disconnect. You have the former Speaker himself saying a list of guests is provided. You have honoured guests and all of that. The Prime Minister's Office is aware of certain individuals who weren't on their list. It may not have been, in your case, a member directly, but there is some way that the Prime Minister's Office had a list outside of their own and were questioning why someone received an invite they shouldn't have.

I find it a little questionable. I will leave it at that, because I have about two seconds left on time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Yes, you do. Thank you, Mr. Duncan.

Mr. Gerretsen, go ahead for five minutes, through the chair.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to go back, Mr. McDonell, to the discussion about open-source checks.

You're saying you don't typically do open-source vetting processes. Am I correct? I've heard you say that a couple times. You didn't do them that day and you typically don't do them.

[Patrick McDonell]

Never.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

You never do them. Okay.

Mr. Janse, you talked about the possibility of doing a check for reputational risk in the future. You might make that as a suggestion.

Would that be for the Speaker's office? Correct me if I'm wrong. It looks like you—

[Eric Janse]

No, obviously it wouldn't be for all 500 guests.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Right.

[Eric Janse]

That would be way too time-consuming and would require way too many resources. The suggestion would be to check anybody who would be recognized by any of the participants.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

It would be anyone who would be recognized to have a reputational risk.

[Eric Janse]

Those individuals would be checked.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Is that where Mr. McDonell's open-source assessment comes in?