Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 13th, 2024

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

As I think you acknowledged, Mr. Cooper, that I was the chief government whip. I'm here to discuss what I understand to have been the process that led to and ensued from the events in Parliament that day.

The fact is that an error was committed. The Speaker acknowledged that error, took responsibility for that error and paid, arguably, a very high price for that error. We were all embarrassed by it. I think I speak for all parliamentarians in expressing our embarrassment for that event. The Prime Minister himself expressed his regrets and his apologies to President Zelenskyy.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

He expressed his apologies in respect of his invitation to a former SS officer after he got caught.

Speaking of the former Speaker, yes, the Prime Minister threw the former Speaker under the bus. The Prime Minister said the Speaker did the right thing by resigning, since he had invited and recognized a former SS soldier. Why do we have one standard for the former Speaker, whom the Prime Minister threw under the bus, and a different standard for the Prime Minister who invited this very same former SS soldier to an exclusive reception, where, had he attended, he could have very easily accessed—or been within feet of— President Zelenskyy?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

The former Speaker stood in his place and acknowledged the presence of a person whose background no one was aware of that day. I was there that day. I assume you were there that day. The history of this gentleman was unknown to us all. The fact that he would be recognized was unknown to us all. The Speaker took his own initiative to invite this person to the speech, which was a decision made by the Speaker and solely by the Speaker.

That's what I can comment on here. I think the appropriate apologies, starting with the former Speaker and continuing with the Prime Minister and others, have been made. I think sometimes, Mr. Cooper, when things—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

It's very—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I'm going to interrupt both of you fine gentlemen with 53 seconds remaining. I've provided a lot of leniency.

I would remind us all that we are at the procedure and House affairs committee. As somebody who lives about an hour away from Toronto, I feel like we receive a lot of attention. I would like us to resituate ourselves to the House of Commons in the nation's capital so that this committee can do its work.

I do believe that I've demonstrated a lot of leniency, and I would like us to get back to the study and the work that we're here to do within your last 53 seconds, Mr. Cooper.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

The Prime Minister threw the former Speaker under the bus. He took no responsibility. He covered up the fact that his office sent an invitation to this former SS soldier, so through you, Madam Chair, to Mr. MacKinnon, I'll ask the question I posed at the start of my round: Will you apologize on behalf of the government for this outrageous invite?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

I reject the premise of your question, Mr. Cooper.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

You stand by the invitation.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

What I said in my initial—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

You have no shame.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Oh, my heavens.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Go ahead, Mr. Gerretsen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Chair, the rules of the House of Commons on what happens in our chamber extend to committees. To suggest that a member is not honourable by saying "You have no shame" is certainly out of order in our chamber and therefore would certainly be out of order in this room.

I would kindly request that Mr. Cooper withdraw that comment and apologize to the witness.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

I withdraw....

Are you not embarrassed that you won't give an unequivocal apology on the part of the government?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I really do believe in the work this committee does. I really take my role seriously as the chair of this committee, believe it or not. I think that you all take turns at trying to compromise that work that I do, and it makes it very awkward and very difficult. I will let you know that I do not appreciate it.

Can we continue to carry ourselves with the regard that I know we can? We are, by default, honourable members. We don't even have to prove it; we just get that title. Let's just be that title for the dozens of people who are watching.

I do think Mr. Cooper recognized that and retracted those comments. We'll leave it at that.

The last 17 seconds will be yours for a response, Minister MacKinnon, and I will be moving on to Mr. Gerretsen.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

I said what I can say and understand to be the case about the incident to which you refer. Suffice it to say, Mr. Cooper, that I fully put to you that the Government of Canada has expressed its extreme regret for the error that the former Speaker made.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Mr. Gerretsen, you have the floor.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I guess the precedent has been set by Mr. Cooper, but out of curiosity, Mr. MacKinnon, have you ever given a TV interview with there being in the background a flag with a swastika drawn on it?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Not to my knowledge.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Unfortunately, that can't be said for all members who sit at this table.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Go ahead, Mr. Berthold.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Only a few moments ago, Mr. Gerretsen tried to lecture us on the importance of sticking to the topic of today's committee meeting. I just want to remind him that he himself should comply with his recommendation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

As we refer to an interview that the former Speaker had, which has now come up, I'm going to have to provide the same leniency.

While there's a certain greyness for asking questions, I always say that if we focused on the study and the work of this procedure and House affairs committee, it would be a lot easier for all of us. However, now that we are referring to interviews that people are having with the media—and it sounds like that's what Mr. Gerretsen is doing—I hope he's going to demonstrate relevance to get us back to the study, and I'm sure Mr. Gerretsen will offer me that courtesy.

The floor goes to you.