Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 13th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I just want to say that there's already been a motion to that effect and that we've received the documents. The only documents we haven't received are the Bloc Québécois's. From what I understand, they've been received, but they're still in the process of being translated, since they need to be submitted in both official languages.

So the committee has already requested all the documents, and from what I understand, we've received them, so I don't believe the member's request for documents to be timely. If the members would like to discuss the issue further, however, I would allow it.

In my opinion, since we've received the documents, I think it's time to move on to questions so that we can find a way to move forward and ensure that something like this never happens again.

I will leave it there, because it's the second reference to documents, but I do understand that we have had a motion passed. I understand that we have received documents, so I want to make sure all members are there.

Mr. Berthold, go ahead.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My colleague made a legitimate request. If House administration staff agrees to forward those documents to the committee, I think we won't need to go any further.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

That's fair, but I think we have already requested them and we have already received them, so I believe they have done that work for us.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

No, these are different documents.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Once again, I'm going to get us through this meeting. I'm putting on record what we do know and what we don't know, but members can always determine that.

Ms. Mathyssen, go ahead for two and a half minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I would like a final clarification on what Ms. Gaudreau was talking about.

Ms. Anctil, when it was discussed, I think you said that each of the parties submitted a list. Those were separate from protocol. You said the Speaker then separated those, or he technically, as a member of the Liberal Party, had a list of the people, although he wasn't seen that way when he was the Speaker, so he had a separate list entirely.

When Mr. Hunka was invited to the PMO's event in Toronto, it would have to have been Mr. Rota sending that list separately as a member, or as the Speaker, to the PMO for that function, in a separate email, in a separate view.

[Nancy Anctil]

I do not know how the Prime Minister's Office obtained Mr. Hunka's name. I could not let you know. I know it was not through us.

You are correct in saying he has a separate list. The Speaker of the House of Commons and the Speaker of the Senate each have a number of guests they invite, so they have separate lists.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

In the small amount of time I have left, you mentioned previously that the role of the protocol office is firewalled.

Could you explain that a bit further? Can you expand on that for me?

[Nancy Anctil]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by “firewalled”.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I'm sorry. That was the wording of the translation, so maybe it didn't come through, but it said that your role within the office of protocol is firewalled to protect, I guess, that division, that separation of lists and everything—

[Nancy Anctil]

Yes. We collate the lists together, but they're not—

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Could you expand on the importance of that and why you'd want to preserve it? Does it maybe need to change?

[Nancy Anctil]

It really is for each party to feel free to be able to invite whomever they want. It is their own prerogative to put people on the guest list. It's the same thing for the Prime Minister's Office, and for the Speaker as well.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay.

For that reputational risk assessment, we were talking about parties potentially sharing lists. Would that interfere with the firewalling? In terms of the separation of lists or reputational risk assessment, how would that sharing interfere?

[Nancy Anctil]

I think what Mr. Janse was referring to was more for a small number of people who would be, for example, seated in the Speaker's gallery. They would be the people who would have more of an active role or be recognized.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Not those—

[Nancy Anctil]

The small groups would not be part of those 500 guests.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Excellent. Thank you.

We'll end this off with two minutes to Mr. Cooper.

Then we'll move on to Mr. Lauzon, who will also have two minutes.

Mr. Cooper, you have the floor.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Madame Anctil, I want to press you a little bit on the sharing of lists. You stated that the protocol office receives lists of invitees, but those lists are not shared.

I accept that, but I would press you insofar as we have, in the limited documents that have been produced to this committee, a text message on September 20 from the Prime Minister's outreach adviser to the parliamentary protocol coordinator with respect to an invitee on the Conservative list, stating, “Received an invite and she shouldn't have. She's not on my list. She shouldn't have been invited. She's not on my list.”

It would seem to me, based upon that text, that the Prime Minister's Office did have names that were not on the Prime Minister's list.

[Nancy Anctil]

My team sent you the screenshot of the message you're referring to. I've been told that this was the only message sent. There was no list attached to it. My thinking is that it could be that it's a person who has knowledge of people in the Prime Minister's Office and had mentioned that she might have been invited to the event, because I—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

It's certainly interesting and raises questions, and that's for sure, but I'll press on. I have one minute left.

We heard that this was a very rushed event. How many days did you have to prepare? What would be the normal time frame, for example, for President Biden's visit to Parliament Hill?

[Nancy Anctil]

I would say that the last three addresses were done in a rushed time, every single one of them. That seems to have been the norm since the end of the pandemic.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Excellent.

By “rushed”, are you're talking about days, weeks...?

[Nancy Anctil]

I'm talking about weeks without an “s”. One week or one week and a half is the type of preparation time we have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Okay.

Mr. Lauzon, you have two minutes.