Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Oct. 22nd, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

I call the meeting to order.

Good morning, everyone.

I hope everybody had a good constituency week back in their ridings.

Colleagues, we are here for the 128th meeting of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. This will be our final meeting to review the members of the House of Commons workplace harassment and violence prevention policy.

As a friendly reminder, and as a piece of information for our witnesses, should you not be using the earpiece when it's plugged in, please make sure you have it placed on the sticker in front of you. Of course, if it's in your ear, there's nothing to worry about. That's done in order to protect the well-being and safety of our translators.

Colleagues, you know the drill. We have three witnesses with us here today. I would like to welcome them.

From Equal Voice, we have Chi Nguyen, executive director. From the Heritage Skills Development Centre, we have Madeline Nwokeji. From WomanACT, we have Harmy Mendoza, executive director.

Witnesses, we'll turn the floor over to you momentarily for introductory remarks of up to five minutes, and then we will move to our line of questioning.

With that, colleagues, we are going to begin.

I'm not sure if there is a witness who has a preference for going first. In the absence of that, I will ask Ms. Nguyen to start us off.

[Chi Nguyen, Executive Director, Equal Voice]

Thank you very much.

My name is Chi Nguyen. I am the executive director, as Mr. Carr mentioned, of Equal Voice.

We are a multipartisan organization focused on electing women to all levels of government in this country. For more than 20 years, we have been advocating for gender parity by working with the parties and equipping women with the skills they need in order to help retain them in elected office.

We have been doing some work in this space and researching these issues. Our research shows that with the increasing and shifting culture of harassment and violence in politics, there are real challenges in recruiting people and supporting them so they stay engaged. We're very delighted that you have been taking a look at your own internal practices and are considering how to continue to create a workplace environment that's safer for all involved.

There are two pieces of work we've been involved in that touch directly on your area of study at the moment.

One of them is a piece of work on systemic change and how to create more gender-inclusive legislatures, which we released in 2020. One of the three pillars in that work is a focus on safe and respectful workplaces.

Following that work, we continue to explore and try to better understand the sexual harassment policies that are in play in some of the provinces and territories. We released a report this spring. It's called “Combatting Sexual Harassment in Canada's Legislative Assemblies”. Let me tell you that it's a page-turner.

I would like to share a few of the findings from this work. There are eight key themes in it, but there are things most relevant for your context today.

The first is that there are certain risks that increase the likelihood of sexual harassment in Canada's legislative assemblies. We know we have under-representation in nearly all of the legislatures in this country, though we might see some changes in B.C., and that's very exciting, and in Quebec, of course, as well.

That under-representation means there isn't the mass culture or the numbers for women to feel safe. That is an area where we think we—

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Would it be possible for the witness to speak more slowly? I don't want to miss anything she says.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

To our witnesses, respectfully....

It's totally understandable. I know you don't appear in front of committees very often. Could you try to slow your pace a bit? It helps the translators and in turn the members. I will make sure to be flexible on your timing in order to accommodate that. If you can be conscious of it, it would be much appreciated.

Thank you very much.

Ms. Nguyen, there are about three minutes left.

[Chi Nguyen]

Okay. I'm going to try to stay focused and slow down.

The other elements that we uncovered in our research—we did a fairly extensive study of qualitative and quantitative data—were that excessive alcohol consumption plays a role in the context of many legislatures and that the precarity of the nature of the work that happens in parliaments is something to note as well, in addition to the hierarchical culture of this particular kind of workplace.

We also know that sexual harassment and gendered behaviours impact different groups within the legislature differently. Different workers have varying degrees of power and differing employment arrangements and diverse norms. These characteristics mean that sexual harassment, along with other gendered behaviours, can manifest and affect different groups differently.

Many research participants in our work also talked about the potential ramifications on their own career and mental health. With respect to the question of training during an onboarding process, one person responded, “I don't think we've ever received any training on anything. We were thrown into the deep end, and it's trial by fire.”

Those who had witnessed sexual harassment in legislative assemblies were concerned about the personal and professional ramifications of coming forward. Many such witnesses were also personally impacted by these behaviours. Some experienced trauma, fear for their careers and worry about their safety and well-being in the workplace.

The last finding I want to point to is that many research participants who had used or considered using legislative policies found that they didn't always meet their needs. Anti-harassment policies that don't meaningfully support complainants can inadvertently cause harm to those who experience sexual harassment and protect the harassers.

The policies can create a level of legitimacy to the efforts, but if there's not also a stream around prevention and mitigation, then we can create undue harms in other ways.

As part of this, when policies don't meet the needs of survivor-victims, including mechanisms to ensure independence and clear and consistent communication with complainants, those who experience sexual harassment are at risk of further harm.

I also want to speak briefly about some public opinion research work that we've done to understand the views of Canadians on these issues. I'll just note one particular stat, which is that as we interviewed and polled young women about coming forward and thinking about a career in politics, we've seen an increase from 75% to 82% of women saying that they were concerned about online safety and harassment as issues if they thought about pursuing politics as an opportunity.

We also want to note that many Canadians actually talked about harassment and physical safety as concerns keeping them from stepping forward as potential candidates. Therefore, when you think about your long-term recruitment strategies as political parties and about having strong, great candidates, it's part of the piece that I think we need to pay attention to.

We regularly work with women and gender-diverse people across the country. We've been running campaign schools now for the last several years. This past year we've run campaign schools with more than 250 participants, and we know that we hear from them directly about their concerns about these issues. We talk about them, but that doesn't mean that talking is the solution. People being aware of the challenge means that they're better equipped to face it, but it doesn't get to the prevention and the other work that needs to happen. I'll—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Ms. Nguyen, I'm afraid I'm going to have to end there.

[Chi Nguyen]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

We have a tight timeline today. However, there will be lots of time for questioning, and hopefully then you'll be able to get to the points that you wanted to make.

Thank you very much. I apologize.

Madam Nwokeji, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Madeline Nwokeji, Program Director, Heritage Skills Development Centre]

Good morning to distinguished members of the standing committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today.

My name is Madeline Nwokeji. I'm the program director at Heritage Skills Development Centre, a non-profit organization in Scarborough, Ontario.

HSDC was established in 1993 with a mission to promote the social, cultural, health and economic integration of women, low-income marginalized individuals and newcomers. Through skills development, social programs and capacity-building programs, we work to support high-risk youth, low-income disadvantaged individuals, families and more. We do take pride in being a trusted service provider and have served the community for over 30 years.

Today I would like to address a critical issue that impacts all workplaces across Canada: workplace harassment and violence.

As an organization deeply committed to providing safe, equitable and respectful environments, we recognize the profound impacts that workplace harassment and violence can have on individuals, organizations and society as a whole. Workplace harassment in all its forms, whether it be verbal, physical, sexual, emotional, microaggressions or even cyber-bullying, can have severe consequences for victims. This includes affecting one's psychological well-being, leading to anxiety, depression and diminishing self-esteem. As we know, victims may also struggle with chronic stress that can affect their overall productivity and well-being.

At HSDC we see the ripple effects of such trauma among the marginalized groups we serve, including women who already face multiple barriers and challenges in the workplace. Harassment can compound feelings of alienation and isolation, which delays their path to self-sufficiency. Beyond the personal toll, workplace harassment can also impact team dynamics and morale and undermine organizational culture. We also know that it can invite serious legal and financial repercussions.

Employers and leaders are obligated by law not only to provide a safe working environment but also to foster a culture that values inclusivity, respect and dignity. To address this, policies and proactive measures are essential.

For example, at HSDC we have implemented a comprehensive workplace violence and harassment program that not only meets the legal requirements but goes beyond them to foster an inclusive culture of respect. This includes training for staff and volunteers, clear reporting mechanisms and safety procedures, such as an emergency response plan. We believe that creating an environment where employees feel safe to speak up and are supported is the key to preventing and addressing harassment.

In addition to this, we also have an upcoming project that will train our employer partners in Scarborough, Ontario, on workplace harassment prevention strategies, with a focus on microaggressions that women face in the workplace.

Furthermore, a solution to the issue of workplace harassment lies not only in creating a policy but also in regular training. An effective training program should educate House members and employees on recognizing all forms of harassment and understanding how it impacts us in and outside the workplace.

It's also important that all members and employees have an active role in maintaining a safe workplace. We recommend an open door policy to the reporting of workplace harassment, as well as putting specific measures in place for taking immediate action, including conflict resolution strategies.

An additional recommendation is cultural competency training for House members, staff and leadership. We do believe this is important, given the diverse members of the House of Commons who come from all walks of life. Cultural competency will help to improve understanding and sensitivity towards the diverse cultures, as well as toward behaviours or language that could constitute workplace harassment.

I also want to add that it is vital to note age gaps and generational differences within the House. Thus, as everyone brings their own unique lived experiences, everyone should be treated with the same dignity and respect, regardless of age or gender.

It is not enough to simply react to incidents. We must create an environment where harassment and violence are not tolerated and where employees and members feel empowered to raise concerns without fear of retaliation. By fostering open communication, diversity and inclusivity, we create workplaces that respect the dignity of all individuals. Failure to do this can have detrimental mental health impacts, as well as affect our ability to thrive in our role as public servants.

Members of Parliament are representatives of the people and also serve as our role models. Community members and youth look up to their MPs, including what they will do to address workplace harassment. Especially in this Internet age and social media age, members do have an obligation to portray a strong image as leaders and what it truly means to be Canadian, which is a respect for differences.

In conclusion, workplace harassment and violence have far-reaching effects on individuals, organizations and our communities. By investing in prevention, education and accountability, we can create workplaces where everyone feels safe, respected and valued. I urge the committee to consider the importance of strong policies, robust training programs and a comprehensive support system to ensure every Canadian workplace remains a space of dignity and respect.

Thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thank you very much, Ms. Nwokeji.

Ms. Mendoza, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Harmy Mendoza, Executive Director, WomanACT]

Thank you.

Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Harmy Mendoza. I am the executive director of WomanACT.

I want to thank the committee for the opportunity to speak today.

WomanACT is a charitable organization advancing gender equity by mobilizing research, policy and education.

Why is it essential to have a strong workplace harassment and violence prevention policy? Well, the pervasive nature of gender-based violence and harassment across all sectors is glaringly evident.

Let me share my first statistic with you. One in eight women reported that they have been sexually assaulted in a work-related context at one point in their working lives. This rate is four times higher than what men experience.

We cannot discuss this without acknowledging intersectionality. For example, women with disabilities face inappropriate sexualized behaviour at a rate of 35%, compared to 20% for those without disabilities. This is why, at WomanACT, we advocate an intersectional and anti-oppressive approach.

Moreover, let's talk about workplaces and productivity. What is the impact of harassment on productivity? Well, 55% of those who experienced harassment reported decreased productivity, 70% missed workdays and 46% lost trust in their teams.

To address such a concerning problem, it is crucial to implement trauma-informed and organization-wide practices.

Now, on your current policy, we were thrilled to see that the current policy includes harassment and violence prevention training for all members and employees to maintain a culture of respect. Thank you for that.

This training curriculum should encompass bystander intervention training, including interactive exercises, role-playing scenarios and industry-specific examples emphasizing empathy, allyship and shared responsibility. Our newly launched WomanACT in the Workplace initiative is a great example of how partnering with community organizations can help assess your workplace's needs and develop tailored training and resources to foster a survivor-centred and inclusive workplace culture.

There is also a need for the current policy to explicitly mention the need to respect the privacy and confidentiality of all persons involved and a statement forbidding any reprisal against a complainant following a disclosure. Research shows that disclosures can be accompanied by feelings of shame, stigma and fear of repercussions. In fact, studies tell us that survivors report that the outcome they most desire is confidentiality and to be shown concern.

The current policy briefly mentions voluntary and confidential support services through the employee and family assistance program. Complementary to these services, our research revealed the merits of counselling and peer support groups in healing and in maintaining employment.

What are our recommendations?

Well, it would be good that the provision of domestic violence leave, its eligibility criteria and the request process be readily available to all employees in a way that ensures the confidentiality and safety of the disclosure. Domestic violence leave should be explicitly mentioned in the policy and must be included as part of any related mandatory training and onboarding of employees to encourage survivors to feel safe and comfortable enough to disclose any instances of harassment and violence.

Additionally, we recommend adding trauma-informed gender-based analysis and anti-racist, anti-oppressive training to the required qualifications for investigators. This ensures that investigation procedures comply with the code and the Canadian Human Rights Act, reducing the risk of trauma and revictimization that may discourage disclosure and erode trust.

Finally, implementing a zero tolerance policy for sexual and gender-based workplace harassment is crucial for fostering a safe and inclusive work environment. Such policies protect employees from harmful behaviours and reinforce the organization's commitment to respect and dignity for everyone.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thank you very much, Ms. Mendoza.

Witnesses, we are now going to move into our line of questioning.

We will begin with Ms. Rempel Garner, who will have the floor for six minutes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

In Canada, instances of criminal harassment are up 36% over the last decade, and that's just the incidents that are reported; countless other times, they're not. That's true for any Canadian, but particularly for elected officials. It's extremely difficult for victims to get justice. That's because of a lot of different issues: grey areas in existing laws, bail issues and lack of education in the judiciary and among law enforcement officials.

To end this problem, it's been suggested that the government should enact legislation that would create a so-called “digital restraining order”. In this, a legal threshold similar to criminal harassment could be met. If it was met—not impinging on charter-protected speech—courts could require Internet service providers and other online platforms to both identify digital stalkers and require them to take measures to prevent these people from communicating with these victims. This would provide victims, including elected officials, the judiciary and law enforcement, with simple, easy-to-use tools to quickly end online criminal harassment.

Would you recommend that the government enact such a measure, Ms. Nguyen?

[Chi Nguyen]

Thank you for the question.

I feel that I would need to know a bit more context and specificity around how it was being rolled out. I think there are potentially great benefits to it, but I don't know that I can speak specifically to that approach.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

You would agree that there need to be more tools for law enforcement to end online criminal harassment, though.

[Chi Nguyen]

I think tools, not only on the enforcement side but also on the prevention side, are part of the mix.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

The distribution of AI-generated so-called “deepnudes” is already having a negative harassing impact on candidates and on elected officials the world over. To date, Canada's federal government has failed to close a loophole in Canada's laws that prevent the non-consensual distribution of intimate images to include deepnudes.

The Inter-Parliamentary Union, in its 149th general assembly last week, passed a resolution regarding the impact of AI on democracy and human rights and called upon government to take action in this specific regard.

Would you recommend that the government update Canada's Criminal Code sections regarding the non-distribution of intimate images to ensure that it's illegal to distribute highly realistic AI-generated deepnudes without consent?

[Chi Nguyen]

Yes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

Do you realize that there is a bill in front of Parliament that asks for both of these things to be done?

[Chi Nguyen]

I'm aware that there is legislation moving through the system.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Do you think it would be helpful for the federal government to enact these measures prior to the next federal election?

[Chi Nguyen]

I do think that signals to potential candidates—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

This is Equal Voice. These are non-partisan issues. I would just like your opinion as Equal Voice on whether the government should enact these measures prior to the next federal election.

[Chi Nguyen]

I would welcome clear action in these spaces as soon as possible.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

Today is the 10-year anniversary of the shooting on Parliament Hill.

Physical safety in our workplace is important as well. Would you recommend, Ms. Nguyen, that the committee overseeing the renovation of Centre Block make specific recommendations to keep MPs physically safe in their workplace while allowing law-abiding citizens access to the grounds?