Evidence of meeting #130 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was voting.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Sherry Romanado Liberal Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC
Professor Daoust, you mentioned the conflict between municipal and federal elections. During the last federal general election, I went door to door, at the same time as the municipal candidates. Honestly, I never heard anyone say they didn't vote because they were mixed up.
Do you have any data from the last election indicating that people didn't vote because they were confused?
Professor, School of applied politics, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
No, such data doesn't exist, because, from a methodological point of view, it would be very difficult to isolate the causal effect. On the other hand, there is documentation that proves the notion of electoral fatigue beyond a doubt.
It seems reasonable to me that some people would be confused about the date of the poll and the location of the polling station. My work with Élections Montréal confirms that too much overlap prevents certain things from happening. For example, if institutions like Élections Montréal wanted to run major advertising campaigns to remind people of the importance of voting in municipal elections, they would probably refrain from doing so, or would wait to do so until only municipal elections were underway, to make sure there was no confusion. There may be no direct effect, but many indirect effects can accumulate.
Liberal
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank the witnesses, Mr. Campbell, Ms. Garnett, Ms. Bannerman and Mr. Daoust. I'm happy to see that organizations are interested in elections, as well as the scientific community, whose opinion we also need.
By the way, Professor Daoust, I welcome your answers and thank you for telling us that, if something doesn't fall within your expertise, we need to look elsewhere for the answer.
On the other hand, you mentioned a subject that interests you in the context of your research, electoral fatigue. According to you, there's a whole body of scientific literature on the subject. Could you tell us more about what election fatigue is, for those of us who aren't necessarily as involved in the field as you are, and show us the effects of this fatigue that can already be felt in the Canadian or Quebec population?
Professor, School of applied politics, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
Election fatigue is a concept raised in several works in electoral studies. I'm thinking, for example, of my work with André Blais, but also André Blais' work with Filip Kostelka, and a more recent article by Alex B. Rivard and other colleagues on the Canadian code.
Election fatigue refers to the fact that the number of elections and their proximity to each other make citizens less inclined to participate. All sorts of political attitudes may be affected, but interest in politics is less likely. This interest in politics is crucial because it's one of the best predictors of why people vote, but also other things like a sense of civic duty.
I conceive of voting as being a duty before being a right or a choice. I do my civic duty by voting in federal elections, and I vote in municipal elections because I still see it as a civic duty. On the other hand, if I've already voted a few days ago at the federal level, and now it's time to vote at the municipal level, perhaps I'll be a little lenient with myself and tell myself that I've done my civic duty and that I'll pass this time for the municipal level in Quebec.
Election fatigue therefore has an undeniable negative effect on voter turnout, an effect that is reflected in various political attitudes, including interest in politics. People become less interested, more tired. They have less energy to engage politically in discussions or to go out and vote.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Thank you.
You mentioned democratic attitudes, the organizing of elections and turnout. I imagine they're all interconnected, but if the federal and municipal election periods overlap in 2025, how might it affect voter turnout, the organizing of elections and people's democratic attitudes on a practical level?
Professor, School of applied politics, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
It's extremely difficult to measure, as I said earlier, but we are quite sure that it would have a negative impact. Would the impact be mild or moderate? We don't know, but we are sure that it would be negative, so in that respect, I see it as a problem. In terms of people's attitudes, voter fatigue results in a decline in voter turnout.
As far as organizing the elections is concerned, I can say that it will be very difficult. If Elections Canada is on the ground, which it necessarily will be, it's going to rent space for its polling stations. That will make it much harder for institutions like Élections Montréal to rent locations for advance polling, which would take place during the federal election campaign. From an organizational point of view, it would probably be a nightmare for municipal election authorities.
In addition—and Ms. Garnett mentioned this—elections administrators are often short-staffed. That's pretty typical. Finding election workers is tough nowadays and has been for a few years, actually. The retention rate among those who have previously worked a federal election is significant, since it tends to be the same people who want to be deputy returning officers. That may make it even harder for municipal election authorities to find the necessary staff to ensure that voting runs smoothly both for advance polling and on election day. In terms of organizing elections, that would be the impact.
The effects could be felt in various ways, but they would all be negative.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
I have a question about the people who run in an election, which is another form of voter turnout. If the two election periods overlap, could it affect the involvement of those who choose to be federal or municipal candidates?
Professor, School of applied politics, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
In this case, it would affect those running in the federal election, which would prevent them from participating at the municipal level—so probably not very many people. Unfortunately, I don't have enough detailed information to give you an explanation or ideas I would consider satisfactory, so I will leave it there.
Liberal
NDP
Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First of all, thank you to all the witnesses for being here today. There was a lot of valuable information provided.
My question is for Mr. Campbell, but before I ask it, I want to point out what's happening here today and what we saw with the previous panel. What we saw was the Conservative Party continuing to spread misinformation and division intended to inflame anger, further disenfranchising Canadians from elections. This is what we're seeing over and over again.
Conservatives know they benefit from the electoral system remaining the way it is. The Conservatives benefit from the lack of representation that we see in the House of Commons, where there are barriers to full participation, and from keeping the systems the same. We know there are corporate elites who have a lot at stake, and through the Conservatives they are trying to maintain the electoral system the way it is instead of seeing improvements to our electoral systems, seeing improvements to our democracy and seeing a House of Commons that's representative of our communities.
The Conservatives are going to do all they can to disenfranchise Canadians and inflame anger so that Canadians do not show up at the polls and do not see themselves through those who are elected in the House of Commons.
I want to highlight that this is exactly what we're seeing today. I hope the Conservatives will take a moment to reflect on their duty to represent their constituents, not the corporate elites.
With that, I want to ask my question of Mr. Campbell.
Mr. Campbell, I put forward a motion recently, M-86, calling for a national citizens' assembly on electoral reform. We saw, yet again, all but two Conservatives voting against this. This very much ties into Bill C-65, which we are talking about today.
Can you highlight for us what you feel is missing from this bill to see, as you stated, elections that are fair and proportional, and for which Canadians are engaged in the electoral system?
Board Member, Fair Vote Canada
Thank you.
Well, yes, a proportional electoral system would definitely be a big boon here. I think it ties into some of the other issues that are at play. For example, the incumbency—
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Sorry, Mr. Chair. I don't mean to interrupt Mr. Campbell, but this is the second time the interpreter has indicated that the sound quality is poor and that it's difficult, if not impossible, to interpret his remarks.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ben Carr
All right. We'll take a moment to check with the technicians.
Mr. Campbell, if you wouldn't mind, just try to raise the microphone arm a bit. That should probably do the trick.
We'll continue.
Ms. Barron, there are still three minutes and 30 seconds remaining.
Mr. Campbell, the floor is yours.
Board Member, Fair Vote Canada
How is this? Is this better?
Well, we'll find out.
A more proportional electoral system.... We don't want excessive incumbency either, like the United States. I think they have 85% of their representatives getting returned at each election, whereas Canada is at 54%. Somewhere in between would probably be healthier.
The concern when we don't have experienced parliamentarians is that the civil service ends up filling that gap, and that's not the most.... That's technocratic government rather than democratic government.
It would also deal with the foreign interference aspect to an extent. If you have a choice—
Bloc
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ben Carr
All right. Hold on everyone.
Just give us a moment here, please, everyone. We'll try to figure out what's happening.
Mr. Campbell, can you confirm for us if you selected the Jabra microphone on your device?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ben Carr
You did? Okay. Just give us another moment.
Colleagues, we're quite tight on time.
Unfortunately, Ms. Barron, what I'm going to ask is whether you would be comfortable maybe posing that question to another panellist.
Unfortunately, Mr. Campbell, I'm sorry. We can't continue without proper translation. At the same time, if I suspend right now to fix this, it's going to take away from our ability to get other questions in.
October 31st, 2024 / 12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ben Carr
Yes.
Mr. Campbell, we could get a written response from you, certainly, and that satisfies both your ability to respond and Ms. Barron.
Ms. Barron, there are still two minutes and 50 seconds. If you want to pose that question to another panellist or continue in a different line of questioning, we're going to keep going. If you're comfortable with that, I think it's going to save us some valuable time.
The clock is ticking again for you.
NDP
Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Thank you, Chair. I'm sorry to hear that Mr. Campbell won't be able to continue, but I look forward to seeing the written notes. I'm happy with what was being provided already in this meeting, so that's good news.
I will continue my questions, through you, Chair, for Dr. Bannerman.
Dr. Bannerman, could you clarify what you feel could be done to improve some of the concerns you were bringing forward around the necessary privacy that needs to be put in place? What changes could be made to this bill to make those improvements and eliminate those concerns?
Professor and Canada Research Chair in Communication Policy and Governance, McMaster University, As an Individual
I guess I see two potential ways forward in the big picture. One is to incorporate all 10 principles fully into this bill, probably by working with the Privacy Commissioner, including adding oversight of the Privacy Commissioner in partnership with the elections head.
Another possibility would be to amend Bill C-27, if it's still possible to do that, to incorporate applicability to political parties under that bill. In other words, bring political parties under the ambit of commercial privacy law or privacy law that applies to the private sector, which is what is done in British Columbia.
There are two broad avenues there. I could also speak specifically to the 10 points if you would like me to go into more detail about that.
NDP
Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
I think that's enough information, but I would love to be able to see the more fulsome information provided in writing if you're able to do that, if you haven't actually provided that.
Mr. Chair, because my time was split up, can you clarify how much time I have left?
