Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 7th, 2022

[Prof. Dwight Newman]

I haven't looked at the empirical literature on the results of that across the United States. There, hopefully, would be scholars who have, and it would be worth looking for their scholarship on the effects of that. There have been various equivalents to ridings designated based on over 5% of the population with indigenous languages and other languages: Asian-American languages, Latino-American languages, etc.

It would be worth looking at that data and what the effects have been for various language communities.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you very much. That's my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Ms. Sahota, the next five minutes go to you.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Through you to the witnesses, I'd like to first ask Professor Harell if she could comment on some of the questions that were raised in Professor Newman's opening remarks. There were a lot of questions. I feel there were more questions raised than answers as to how this committee should recommend going about moving in this direction.

Should we or should we not present these ballots in places where there are already territorial elections happening in this way? Do we go beyond that or do we provide proportional cut-offs, or “thresholds” as some may call them, depending on the population? If there's more than one language that is predominantly used, how many languages do we put on the ballot? Are syllabics used, or should syllabics also be introduced?

I was wondering if Ms. Harell can comment a bit and help us understand what we should be recommending to Elections Canada. There's a lot of will to try to move in this direction and do better. You mentioned in your opening remarks that we should be doing whatever indigenous communities would like us to do.

That's to Professor Harell.

[Dr. Allison Harell]

Thank you for that.

I would start by saying, to reiterate a point that Professor Newman made, that consulting with the communities that are concerned seems to be of the utmost importance to find out what they think are feasible solutions to be able to get languages on the ballot.

That being said, the operational challenges are important, and I think I said that in my opening remarks. One of the things that is important to think about in doing that is.... I wouldn't suggest taking baby steps, but a pilot project, going with something that seems operationally feasible, at least in the short term, makes a lot of sense at my end. I'll tell you why: Going all in and having it be a disaster is worse than doing it step by step in a process to build on capacity for doing this.

A failed experiment could have larger consequences for people's trust in the system than a sort of step-by-step process of getting these in place in a way that's feasible and makes it not a problem when an elector shows up at a voting booth to vote.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

What, in your opinion, would be the best way to consult with indigenous communities on this? Does the witness feel that this committee should be doing that work and consulting communities, or does the professor think that some type of in-house council within Elections Canada, an outside advisory group or something of that sort should be undertaken?

[Dr. Allison Harell]

Professor Newman may have some things to add to this, but I think building capacity within Elections Canada makes a lot of sense and to have that.... In every step of the way, consultation is probably a good thing, but building in-house capacity within Elections Canada to explore the options with people who are reaching out to the communities makes a lot of sense to me.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Do any of the other panellists have anything to add?

[Prof. Dwight Newman]

I would say all of the above are valuable. There may be limits to how many of them can be done, but any engagement by the committee, by other designated individuals on behalf of the committee or by Elections Canada developing its capacity would be valuable.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

How much more time do I have, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

You have one minute, but I think Dr. Daoust would also like to add something.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Please go ahead.

[Dr. Jean-François Daoust]

I fully agree. The first part was about when, and I would say probably as soon as possible. Otherwise, I fully agree with what has been said.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Madam Chair, in the previous committee meeting, Ms. Idlout also mentioned that, rather than looking at thresholds of population or language use, we should be doing this from a different perspective of maybe where languages are dying out. I'm wondering if any of the panellists have comments to make about that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

We'll do a quick round robin. Perhaps we can start with Professor Newman, followed by Dr. Harell and then Dr. Daoust, which will bring us to time.

Professor Newman.

[Prof. Dwight Newman]

It depends very much on what the objectives are. If the objectives are to enhance electoral participation or opportunities for electoral participation, it makes the most sense to work with situations where languages are in active use and, in fact, in use in place of English and French.

Where languages are dying out, there are very important policy objectives to undertake to support the survival and revitalization of indigenous languages. I'm not sure election ballots would be the first policy step that is most fruitful on those matters. I can understand the sentiment, but in my view, it's far more important to invest in other supports for those languages in terms of survival and revitalization.

[Dr. Allison Harell]

I concur with Professor Newman.

[Dr. Jean-François Daoust]

I fully agree.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

It is absolutely excellent to see a little bit of consensus forming among the witnesses.

Thank you for that great exchange.

Ms. Gaudreau, you have two and a half minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

When we talk about investments, I recall the saying that you have to walk the talk. We are going to have to take action and not just limit ourselves to saying that something needs to be done. The bill we are studying seems to me to represent an opening toward more inclusion.

Some witnesses this week told us that ballots in the Northwest Territories or Nunavut showed a photograph of each candidate.

Our witnesses today may not have an answer, but why is it, in our legislation, that we don't have photographs for federal elections? What do our witnesses think of that idea, given the diversity of dialects, the extent of the copying that would result, and everything else?

[Dr. Jean-François Daoust]

I think that would open the door to a number of unfortunate consequences. We know that people sometimes use heuristic indicia and shortcuts when they vote, in particular in some less important elections, like municipal votes.

The mere alphabetical order of the candidates can already have consequences at the municipal and national levels. The presence of images or photographs of the candidates could certainly open the door to unfortunate consequences.

That is not a firm and final opinion, but it is what comes to my mind when I'm asked the question.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Harell, do you have anything to add?

[Dr. Allison Harell]

I think we have to look for creative solutions.

If the photographs seem to offer multilingual information, I think we should consider that option, just as we use the parties' images and logos. We can imagine all sorts of possible markings that would not call for translation into five or six languages on a single ballot.

I think Mr. Daoust's considerations are appropriate. It might raise questions in terms of the quality of the information, but I think that type of solution must be on the table when we think about voting.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I think I have a bit of time left.

Mr. Newman, you can have the floor.

[Prof. Dwight Newman]

I agree with the other speakers that we have to look for creative solutions.

However, even if a solution looks creative, we also have to consider the unforeseeable effects and the other problems that might arise, as Professor Daoust said.