Procedure and House Affairs Committee on June 21st, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 28 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

The committee is meeting today to continue its work on the operational security of the parliamentary precinct along Wellington and Sparks Streets.

I would like to welcome the following witnesses: Patrick McDonell, Sergeant-at-Arms and corporate security officer; and Larry Brookson, director with the Parliamentary Protective Service.

I would like to welcome you to the PROC committee. Thank you for coming back to join us.

I'll just remind all members that all comments should be made through the chair.

With that, we'll start with Mr. Brookson.

[Larry Brookson, Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service]

Good morning, Madam Chair and honourable members.

I am pleased to be with you today to contribute to this committee's exchanges on matters of physical security.

As the acting director of the Parliamentary Protection Service, I can assure you that being invited to take part in this dialogue is heartening and of critical importance to me and my colleagues.

While I will keep my opening remarks brief, I propose highlighting a few key points.

The first involve collaboration and partnerships. The service is responsible for the physical security of parliamentarians, staff and employees, visitors, buildings, grounds and assets on Parliament Hill and in the precinct. To fulfill this mandate, the service must continue to be proactive in how it networks and builds partnerships with its security and law enforcement partners. How well the service responds to any complex threat or situation is not just a measure of where it is, that day. It is also a reflection of how it has prioritized trust and relationship-building over time.

These relationships, whether with our parliamentary corporate security partners, or with external organizations, were key to how we responded to the occupation for those 23 days this past winter and will continue to be pivotal to our operational readiness in the future.

When it comes to continuous improvement of the service, no matter how well an organization responds to a situation, there are always lessons learned. In 2020, when I was chief operations officer for the service, I created a unit dedicated to ensuring that our operations were provided with mechanisms for proactively applying lessons learned to how we conduct our readiness and response operations.

Through critical activities like scenario-based training and tabletop exercises, this team, called the operation evaluation and continuous improvement unit, now plays a key role in the service's ability to learn from its response to any complex event and helps ensure that findings are integrated across the service. The OECI is key to ensuring the service optimizes every learning opportunity it uncovers.

Finally, I want to raise a point about taking a multi-layered approach to physical security. Physical security is not solely about having strong barriers, optimally trained protection officers or advanced technology. Rather, it's about the triangulation of all three of these elements.

Our service's operational readiness and response capacity is really a function of how physical barriers, human assets and technology work together to create an integrated physical security system to optimally serve our parliamentary community.

As a last word, I recognize that today's exchange is conducted in a public manner. I will do all I can to contribute to the discussion while respecting the confidential nature of certain details.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Mr. McDonell.

[Patrick McDonell, Sergeant-at-Arms and Corporate Security Officer, House of Commons]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Hello, my name is Patrick McDonell and I am the Sergeant-at-Arms of the House of Commons.

Thank you for inviting me, once again, to address your committee. As you know, I appeared before your committee on February 8 to discuss security issues, and I was accompanying—

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Madam Chair, there is no French or English interpretation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

We have it in the room, but I guess it's not working online.

Is it working now?

Ms. Block, can you hear me?

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Perfect. Thank you for that.

[Patrick McDonell]

Should I start over?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Sure.

[Patrick McDonell]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning. My name is Patrick McDonell and I am the Sergeant-at-Arms of the House of Commons. Thank you for inviting me, once again, to address your committee.

As you know, I appeared before your committee on February 8 to discuss security issues, and I was with the deputy clerk of the administration on April 28, 2022, to discuss the possibility of expanding the parliamentary precinct.

I will be cautious about speaking openly about sensitive matters involving security on the Hill and MPs' security off the Hill.

Security matters, when discussed before the Board of Internal Economy, are legislatively mandated under the Parliament of Canada Act to be discussed in camera. Some information, if made public, could increase the vulnerability of the House of Commons security posture, the Parliament buildings, parliamentarians and other persons within the parliamentary precinct.

As head of the Office of the Sergeant-at-Arms and Corporate Security, I note that my team works in close collaboration with its partners to provide a secure environment for members of Parliament, employees and visitors on the Hill. Simply put, our job is to ensure safe and secure access for members, their staff and the administration once they arrive on the precinct.

Working in tandem with our partners in the Parliamentary Protective Service and the Senate Corporate Security, we adapt our practices proactively and continuously, while also responding to evolving security risks. My colleagues in PPS are responsible for the physical security of members within the precinct, and the police of jurisdiction is responsible for the physical safety of all citizens off the precinct, which we know begins at the north sidewalk of Wellington Street.

In these challenging times, things move quickly. New threats are constantly emerging, so it is worth repeating that in no way can we work in isolation. We collaborate closely with our partners, both on and off the Hill, for a coordinated approach to ensure the safety of its people, assets and heritage.

I repeat: our primary function is to ensure the safety of members. We recognize that prevention and early intervention can defuse threats and dangers to them.

As I said, I am happy to testify, but you will understand, I hope, that I am not at liberty to say everything, given that the meeting is public.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you very much, Mr. McDonell.

We appreciate the comments that have been shared this morning.

We will enter into six-minute rounds, but I want to remind members that we will be entering into a vote, so the bells will be starting shortly.

Is there a desire from members to do as we did last time: continue comments and questions for about 20 minutes and then return to the chamber well in time for the vote?

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

We have 10 minutes to get to the chamber. That's sufficient.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Perfect. I would ask that the screen for the bells be turned on once the bells start, and I'll keep an eye on that.

Six-minute rounds are starting.

Mr. Vis will commence, followed by Ms. Sahota, Madame Gaudreau and Ms. Blaney.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Through you, Madam Chair, thanks to Mr. Brookson and Mr. McDonell for being present here today.

Through you, Madam Chair, did the Parliamentary Protective Service request that the Government of Canada invoke the Emergencies Act in February?

[Larry Brookson]

Through you, Madam Chair, no.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Through you, Madam Chair, to each of our witnesses, did the Royal Canadian Mounted Police provide you with all of the support—personnel, material or technical—that you requested immediately upon your request during the “freedom convoy” protests? Were there any shortcomings in the support provided?

[Larry Brookson]

The specifics of the question speak to the request that was made just to have situational awareness on the vehicles that were parked out front on Wellington.

The request for CBRNE sensing was made to the national division of the RCMP, not to Ottawa police officers. That's not their mandate.

Unfortunately, that was not fulfilled, simply because of the technology gap that the RCMP had in what would be required to be detected. It was considered to be unsafe for some of those members to walk through that street and sense vehicles.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

The Parliamentary Protective Service is a security service. Policing and security are two very different professions, with different workforces, career paths and skill sets.

Would both witnesses agree with that statement?

[Larry Brookson]

Are we talking specifically about the RCMP or Parliamentary—

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

No, the Parliamentary Protective Service.

[Larry Brookson]

Would you be kind enough to repeat that question?

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Policing and security are two very different professions, with different workforces, career paths and skill sets.

Is that a correct statement?

[Larry Brookson]

I'll speak only to the protective mandate that the Parliamentary Protective Service holds.

To be clear, the Parliamentary Protective Service is not a policing organization, so it does not have a policing mandate. The recruiting that the service undertakes is to ensure that all requirements of delivering the mandate of protecting parliamentarians, staffers and members of the public are secured.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Would an expanded physical jurisdiction for the PPS, with the same legal mandate, be a feasible undertaking?