Evidence of meeting #28 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
You have referred to a collaborative approach. Are there discussions to get their feedback? Is PPS required to wait until we make a decision further down the road?
I'd hate for this committee and the government to be making decisions when you haven't even engaged with Ottawa police yet, or the RCMP for that matter.
11:45 a.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
Through you, Madam Chair, my responsibility is to direct the service with what I have in front of me, Mr. McCauley. That's where I am.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
That's fair.
What number of added officers would you need in PPS if we had the expanded precinct, as proposed?
11:45 a.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
Through you, Madam Chair, at this point in time I don't have the numbers on that, Mr. McCauley. That would be a requirement of that assessment. We talked about the effective barriers. It's not just about throwing human assets at this to deliver the mandate.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Madam Chair, I have just one last question.
You talked earlier about threats daily, including one person travelling down Lyon and across Wellington and having their car banged on every day. I have to ask, where is the PPS? Where are the police? If this is happening every day, as has been stated, why isn't someone contacting the police for help?
One time I could see, but if it's happening every day.... I'm flabbergasted that it would be allowed to continue, if it did.
11:45 a.m.
Sergeant-at-Arms and Corporate Security Officer, House of Commons
I was also flabbergasted. It happened on Wellington Street. It wasn't in the PPS area of jurisdiction, through you, Madam Chair. It was in the Ottawa police jurisdiction and—
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Are you aware of whether it was reported to the police?
11:45 a.m.
Sergeant-at-Arms and Corporate Security Officer, House of Commons
It was done every day and the police car was within viewing distance. We voiced our frustration with what was happening. It was almost a daily occurrence.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
What was the police's reaction? Did they say it was not a big deal? Did they claim it didn't happen, or...?
11:45 a.m.
Sergeant-at-Arms and Corporate Security Officer, House of Commons
I can't comment on that. I wasn't there.
11:45 a.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
I have nothing more, Madam Chair. Thank you.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Excellent.
That will bring us to getting ready to vote. I think that's a good segue into that.
We'll return with Mr. Fergus, followed by Madame Gaudreau and Ms. Blaney. I'll provide more names as I get them.
Thank you.
Safe travels to your vote.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Welcome back to PROC.
We will continue with the second round, and five minutes goes to Mr. Fergus.
June 21st, 2022 / 12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I'd like to thank the witnesses here. I'm going to ask four pretty quick questions, and I'd like to share my time, if it's possible, with my colleague, Mr. Gerretsen.
First of all, Mr. Brookson, I'd just like to go back to a question that you were asked by Mr. Vis. He asked you if the PPS requested the Emergencies Act.
Can I ask a more fulsome question? Would any police force ask for an act to be invoked, or would they identify the tools that they need for their operational challenges and leave it to the elected officials to find the best tools available? Which would better describe the situation?
12:20 p.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
Through you, Madam Chair, Mr. Fergus, I appreciate the question, but I can't speak on behalf of law enforcement as to what tools they think they would need when dealing with any sort of police matter.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Okay, so on that front, then, because you answered the question, I just wanted to know if there was any more nuance to the answer to that question.
12:20 p.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
Well, the only extra nuance, through you, Madam Chair, would be that there was no benefit whatsoever in the invocation of the Emergencies Act for the service. There were no additional powers provided through that, again, simply because we're not a policing organization.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
That's what I wanted to get at: The PPS is not a policing organization—
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
—which then leads me to my second question. In terms of testimony we heard earlier, I've been around this place for a number of years, through you, Madam Chair. I've seen what has happened—the incident of the hijacking of a bus, and we saw what happened in October 2014—and, after every incident, it would be my sense that we respond with a very incremental type of approach.
Have we reached the point, after February's occupation, that we should respond with an incremental approach, or should we try to go for more wholesale changes, with a larger way of looking forward?
12:20 p.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
Through you, Madam Chair, if I understand your question correctly, Mr. Fergus, obviously the assessment analysis as to what exactly that needs to be is, I think, to come. I'm waiting for some of that work to be completed.
Again, one of the authorities that I have is shutting down the precinct when that threat level reaches a threshold that I'm no longer comfortable with. That's not something I rely on partners or anybody else to influence me on or to suggest otherwise. I apologize, because I don't think that has answered your question.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
The approach I was trying to take was to try to say that in previous times, we've always just tried to take a very incremental approach to improving security around the Hill. Is this the time for incremental thinking, or should we be thinking beyond what happened in the past and start thinking about what could be coming down the pipe in the years to come?
12:25 p.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
Through you, Madam Chair, I can't deliver a mandate if I'm on a linear path to anything, and I ensure that the response is there to meet the threat when it appears. We're talking about a different realm in terms of a pure threat to Parliament, so it's tough for me to suggest how else I would be able to increment stuff up, when I know what I'm here to protect.