Procedure and House Affairs Committee on June 21st, 2022

[Larry Brookson]

Yes, it would.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

In your opening comments, Mr. McDonell, you referenced what took place.

I was in my office the first day after Parliament was functioning. It was shut down for one day. I remember having the news on in the background in my office when I was writing my speech on the Emergencies Act. There were lots of emails going back and forth and coming up on my computer screen about whether we could enter the precinct or not, even though Parliament was open that day.

I remember seeing on TV literally a hundred RCMP officers and protesters outside my office near the Valour Building, and getting these emails at the same time. I remember I had to walk down through the protests, and the RCMP officers were there. When I got to the gates of Parliament, the gates were locked. I thought, wow, if I were ever in a crazy constitutional predicament, it would be right now.

Can you speak to the protocol, or lessons learned, in that situation? I don't think there have been many times in the history of Canada when, literally, the gates of Parliament were locked. As a member, my privilege was being compromised in that moment, when I was prevented from entering Parliament itself when we were debating the Emergencies Act.

Would either of you like to comment on that situation? I know I'm probably not the only member of Parliament who has raised that scenario with you in the last few months.

[Patrick McDonell]

I am trying to recall that day, and I think the barrier, the gate, was locked. It should have been unlocked when you came up. Prior to that, and during the overnight hours and early morning, people were being referred mostly to Bank and Wellington, so it was an oversight, if I recall the date correctly, that the gate was not open, keeping you on the other side and preventing you from coming up. It's one of those things that shouldn't have happened, so it's a lesson learned.

At the same time, there was a lot going on on that particular day, and people were multi-tasked, so I can understand the oversight. However, I am also quite understanding of the anxiety one would feel at arriving at a locked gate, when one had to get into the chamber for a debate.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Especially during the invocation of the Emergencies Act, no less.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Ms. Sahota, over to you.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Well, I think as we're debating now, or will start debating, the hybrid Parliament, I think it's good to be able to say that there are still benefits. Even that day, while people were locked out, you could log in through hybrid Parliament and participate in debate, as I'm able to do today. Even though I have COVID, I'm able to participate today. I'm thankful for that.

Mr. Brookson, regarding the lockdown that took place on June 11, I'm wondering if you could walk me through the occurrence of events. When did the call regarding the incident or suspicious activity come in? Who did the call come in through, and when did it reach you and then the Ottawa Police Service?

[Larry Brookson]

Through you, Madam Chair, that call came in just before noon. This was information that was received by our partners with respect to intelligence at the time that was suggesting a serious threat.

My position has been clear in delivering this mandate and making—

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Which partners, Mr. Brookson?

[Larry Brookson]

It would have been the RCMP and Ottawa Police Service. I'm sorry for that lack of clarification.

I've always made it clear that my threshold for ensuring the protection and security of parliamentarians, staffers and the public is much lower than what would be found in the criminal element of the mandates for policing services. On the information that was received, to me it was without hesitation that we shut down Parliament due to the threats that had been received.

With respect to the investigational part of it, that falls back to the law enforcement partners. Specifically, the Ottawa Police Service is the lead to conduct an investigation. The Parliamentary Protective Service has no mandate for Criminal Code investigations. As I've indicated already, it's not a policing organization.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Have any conversations taken place regarding an investigation as to the person who called in the hoax?

[Larry Brookson]

Through you, Madam Chair, I leave that to the police force of jurisdiction to carry out their mandate of conducting that Criminal Code investigation.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Do you believe the PPS will be involved at some point in that investigation?

[Larry Brookson]

Through you, Madam Chair, no. I don't anticipate any involvement in that, nor would I seek to have involvement in that aspect.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

What do you believe the cost for the lockdown that day may have been?

[Larry Brookson]

Through you, Madam Chair, unfortunately, I don't have those costs. We definitely brought in additional resources to secure the precinct, but I don't have those numbers with me. My apologies.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

The action that was taken that day was swift, and we were notified. Unfortunately, I believe the French notification went out a bit later than the English notification.

Do you believe the action that was taken was due in part to the lessons learned from the convoy?

[Larry Brookson]

Through you, Madam Chair, I'm not going to speculate. I assess things on the information that's put in front of me. I work with exactly what's in front of me. I don't conject or add anything into it.

I'll reiterate that I take very seriously my role and responsibility of ensuring the protection of parliamentarians, staffers and members of the public when they are on the precinct.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Through you, Madam Chair, in his previous presentation to this committee, Mr. Brookson said there was concern during the convoy that there could be, possibly, possession of materials or explosives or other things—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I'm just going to pause here, Ms. Sahota, and give a reminder that the last time these witnesses appeared at our committee, it was an in camera session.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Thank you for that.

There have been articles published, stating that there were concerns as to what the convoy protesters could have had in their possession. I'm just wondering why, at that time, there was no such swift action taken.

[Larry Brookson]

Through you, Madam Chair, I can't get into the details as to the security and the information we had on hand at that time.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Okay.

Madam Chair, I'm wondering if I could share the rest of my time with Mr. Turnbull.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Go ahead, Mr. Turnbull.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thanks, Chair, and thanks to both of you for being here today.

When the Ottawa Police Service was here and testified, I asked them about MP and staff security and harassment during the occupation of Ottawa. They had no information on that. I assume that's because PPS really has the mandate for MP security and safety.

Mr. Brookson, I'm wondering if you can speak to this: How frequent were the threats and security concerns shared by MPs and their staff during the occupation?

[Larry Brookson]

Through you, Madam Chair, I can speak to only my presence within the building. We did receive information, and rightfully so. We had members of Parliament who were trying to walk through crowds of individuals, which I had no situational awareness of. I was equally concerned about some of the concerns I was hearing from parliamentarians.

I don't have or can't speak to respective numbers or calls for service.