Procedure and House Affairs Committee on June 21st, 2022

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair. Through you, very quickly, what are some of the lessons learned? We've heard from witnesses that many lessons have been learned, but give us just one or two.

[Larry Brookson]

Through you, Madam Chair, the after action review is still ongoing within the service. I'm not comfortable speaking in the open to what some of those key lessons learned were, but down the road, whether it's in camera or whatever, I'd be more than willing to come back and express some of those lessons.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Excellent. Thank you.

Now we'll go to Mr. Gerretsen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Through you to the witnesses, I'm just looking for yes or no answers to my questions, if you find you can sufficiently answer with a yes or no. I'll try to be as quick as I can, so I can share my time with Mr. Turnbull.

On Thursday, February 17, the Parliamentary Protective Service erected an eight-foot-high construction fence along Wellington Street as part of the police operations that were being planned. Has that ever happened in the past? I'm wondering if Mr. Brookson knows.

[Larry Brookson]

Through you, Madam Chair to Mr. Gerretsen, I appreciate your question.

I want to be clear that the decision to increase that fence site was not part of the policing response. It was—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Sure, but it was on parliamentary property. I'm just curious if you're aware of whether or not it had ever happened in the past.

[Larry Brookson]

It had not, that I'm aware of.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

You're not aware of that.

On Friday, February 18, after a consultation with the Parliamentary Protective Service, as per the press release I'm looking at, the Speaker of the House of Commons and the leaders of the parties agreed to suspend the sitting day for Parliament, effectively postponing or putting on pause democracy in our country.

Are you aware of any other time in the past when our democratic institution has not been able to function, based on the advice of security?

[Larry Brookson]

February 14, 2014.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

What was that incident?

[Larry Brookson]

That was the shooting incident.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

That was the shooting incident on Parliament.

[Larry Brookson]

It was October. I'm sorry.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Finally, on Saturday, February 19—this is when the parliamentary precinct was in a hold and secure—I was entering the parliamentary precinct. I was literally walking through the police exercise that was going on to remove the occupiers.

At the end of Bank Street, I attempted to enter. There were about 15 PPS individuals who were standing at what was a makeshift opening in the gate, literally moving two construction fences. They were using a fairly heavy-gauge metal chain to chain that fence together with a padlock. That's how I entered into the parliamentary precinct to participate in the democratic process that we have here.

Are you aware of any other time in the past that such high security measures were used to protect the parliamentary precinct and the individuals who work here?

[Larry Brookson]

Through you, Madam Chair, no, Mr. Gerretsen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Turnbull.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

We heard from Minister Tassi, who came before this committee. She talked about block 2. She said that 50% of parliamentarians in the future will actually work south of Wellington.

We also heard from Senator Vernon White, who is a former Ottawa police chief, and another former Ottawa police chief, Peter Sloly, who said in his opening remarks: “First is crime prevention through environmental design. Consider changes to the parliamentary precinct's physical environment, including the boundaries, to improve security.”

What I want to double-check here is that in order to optimize security, does it make sense to have a major arterial road, with cars running along it all day long, through the middle of the future parliamentary precinct?

[Larry Brookson]

Through you, Madam Chair, I have indicated a few times that that's not supported by the service. No.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Great.

I think it was Senator White who said that the biggest gain in MP security would be to shut down Wellington Street.

Would you agree with that sentiment, from an environmental design perspective?

[Larry Brookson]

Through you, Madam Chair, I would.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you.

I also want to ask about response times.

When critical incidents happen along Wellington Street currently, who is in the best position to respond? I wanted to check with you, but I assume it's PPS, because you're closer and perhaps have that situational awareness.

[Larry Brookson]

Through you, Madam Chair, it would be the service, Mr. Turnbull.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you.

In the future, if we wanted to guarantee PPS's response time.... I realize in your earlier testimony you said that in fact you're in a difficult position, that it's difficult to influence decisions on something you really don't have a mandate over. That must make it very challenging to do your job, which is to secure the parliamentary precinct.

In terms of guaranteeing a faster response time in the future, can we improve that, and what resources would you need?

[Larry Brookson]

Through you, Madam Chair, again, the analysis and assessment would need to be completed on what would be the investment for an expanded precinct.