Evidence of meeting #28 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
Through you, Madam Chair, it is, and it wouldn't be something that I'd be permitted to discuss in open camera.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Thank you. This a great committee to be on.
Basically, in the interests of time, we're going to go through a quick round of giving everyone some time. I will give the Conservatives about three minutes, and Liberals will get about three minutes.
Ms. Gaudreau, you will have the floor for one minute.
Ms. Blaney, I'll give you about a minute to a minute and a half as well.
We'll get quick questions back and forth, and then we will call it a day.
We'll start with Mr. McCauley.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Thanks, Madam Chair.
I want to compliment both our witnesses for their straightforward answers.
Through you, Madam Chair, Mr. Brookson, I want to get back to having control of Wellington and Sparks. If we expanded the precinct and shut down Sparks, and PPS was looking after Sparks, so to speak, how would that interact with the Ottawa police for the actual policing of Sparks? Walk me through a Coles Notes version of how that would look.
12:45 p.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
Through you, Madam Chair, it would function the same way it does now. As an example, if one of our protection officers picked up on certain behaviour that was deemed a concern or a threat, and it led to a subsequent arrest or detainment by the protection officer, the call goes in through our OSC to the OSC of the Ottawa police, and a priority three call response is provided, because that is the limitation of 494(1) in the Criminal Code. It provides us public officer arrests, but we can't release, so that's done with Ottawa police. That partnership is working extremely well, and that wouldn't change.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
If you were looking at things through Pareto's law of averages of 80% coming from 20%, what would be the 80%? Would it be shutting down Wellington and Sparks that would have the greatest impact, in your mind, for security?
12:45 p.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
Through you, Madam Chair. Mr. McCauley, it would be the exact geography we spoke about previously. The Senate of Canada building is still a concern for me at its current location, so that needs to be considered for precinct expansion. Then the north side of Wellington, understanding where the Langevin building comes around, needs to be taken under consideration as far down as Kent.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Would you close Wellington to OC Transpo or to regular bus service as well?
12:45 p.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
Through you, Madam Chair, that is correct; it would be completely closed off.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
I want to ask for a little more information around the formalizing of relationships, keeping in mind that, of course, there's only so much you can share in a public meeting.
I'm wondering, with your tabletop exercises and critical incident response and looking at them from a very collaborative perspective.... We've heard testimony from numerous security experts who have said that the clearer the roles, relationships and lines of communication are within any critical incident.... It's imperative to have the best possible, the quickest possible and the most effective response.
Could you give us any more information as to the MOUs, what that process looks like and whether you can give us any other details on how you're working through those multi-jurisdictional...? I don't want to call them challenges, but I'm sure that there are multi-jurisdictional relationships that have to be clarified.
12:50 p.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
Through you, Madam Chair, it's the tabletop exercising that is another element within the service that I'm extremely proud of, and that exercising framework is led by the service. The involvement we've had with both our key partners, the RCMP and the Ottawa Police Service, has been phenomenal with their participation and guidance, even the sharing of specific training for the service has been equally....
I apologize, Mr. Turnbull. I'm going to ask you to bring me back to point on this.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Yes. That's no problem. I'll ask you a quick clarifying question. Where I was going with this is that it's clear to me, based on your testimony today, that those conversations are under way and there's lots of clarification being done.
What I wanted to get to was asking you a very clear question: In terms of the parliamentary precinct, if PPS really has the mandate to protect members of Parliament and their staff in order for our democracy to continue to function, it seems to me—and I want to see if you agree with this—that PPS really should be the lead in terms of organizing and at the top of the chain. It really should be PPS. Would you agree with that, if we were to optimize MP security?
12:50 p.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
Through you, Madam Chair, when it comes to within the precinct, Mr. Turnbull, yes, I would agree with that.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I have one minute.
I really need to focus.
Thank you very much for being here.
I am thinking about it and I see that an initiative has been launched by the Parliamentary Protective Service and I thank them for that.
That said, when you have a crisis to deal with, you have to adjust your aim and redo the command post. I would hope that when we receive the documents on the recommendations, perhaps at a closed meeting, there may be proposals for some kind of command post to adjust to the situation. Human beings do not want to encroach on jurisdictions and cross boundaries.
I would like to hear from witnesses about having a system in place already.
You have experience in preventing incidents that could occur at any time.
12:50 p.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
The service has a critical management centre, and it was up and running throughout the past winter. It was up and running for last Saturday.
This is a centre that really has diffusion of the tactical leadership of the service in applying an effective response to any threat that can happen on the Hill.
Our command centre is also in line with....
I'm sorry, I don't think I understood that.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I'm going to take 30 seconds to go over what I said.
Madam Chair, how are we to explain all the delays there were last February if the system was already in place?
12:50 p.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
The delays I believe the honourable member is speaking about would be more towards the police force of jurisdiction and coming up with the operational policing response. That did not fall to the service to provide.
I apologize. I think that's where my confusion stems from.