Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Oct. 4th, 2022

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

This is a very important question for us. Indeed, we want interpreters to be comfortable when they work. We do not want them to leave, because that is not good for the other employees. We want to make sure our interpreters want to do the job. Also, we do not want to lose those who are with us right now, because it is imperative that Canadians receive this service in both official languages.

From the beginning, Mr. Aubé and his team have worked very hard to ensure the continuity of the service. As for the listening system, you can see that changes were made very regularly. As soon as a problem was perceived or reported, everything was done to ensure the quality of services.

You will notice that many of the problems affecting interpreters also arise in other departments and organizations. If we probe a little deeper to determine the exact nature of the problem, we realize that conditions in the House and in Parliament are quite good. We want to continue to improve them.

Mr. Aubé, would you like to add anything? There are many technical elements involved. You might be in a better position than I to talk about them.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

You only have 45 seconds left, Mr. Aubé.

[Stéphan Aubé, Chief Information Officer, Digital Services and Real Property, House of Commons]

Together with the Translation Bureau, we have developed a continuous improvement plan to ensure that people's hearing is protected and to offer the same quality of sound to all participants, including interpreters, members and witnesses. We have been working on it for two years and have invested millions of dollars to do so. We are also continually testing our systems. That is how I would summarize the situation in 45 seconds.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I want to thank you and all the participants.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Mr. Fergus, thank you for having taken into account that there were only 45 seconds left.

Ms. Gaudreau, you have six minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Hello everyone.

I am truly pleased that we could start this discussion. I must admit that it does not seem necessary at the moment, because we are already working in hybrid format. That said, we will address the question.

To try to understand, I will approach the question from a numbers perspective.

Mr. Aubé, we just heard you talk about millions of dollars in investments. How much have we invested in keeping Parliament going in a pandemic context? Can you give us a figure quickly?

[Stéphan Aubé]

I would not want to state a specific figure. I can only speak to the aspect relating to the interpreters, because that is the file I'm familiar with. The bulk of the investment was used to protect the interpreters. We installed volume limiters in all the booths to protect their hearing. That cost a little over $1 million.

There is also the whole aspect of the resources we use. I do not have specific figures today, but we have devoted resources to maintain that infrastructure and that—

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I must interrupt. Could you provide figures for the investment made to bring about these changes?

[Stéphan Aubé]

If the committee needs it, we could get those figures to you, Ms. Gaudreau.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Perfect.

Regarding interpretation services, we compared a meeting held entirely in person to another that was held virtually. Of course, there is an impact on both official languages, as I can personally attest.

It is completely different when a meeting is held in person rather than virtually. Not only do I factor in the time when people have to say, “Unfortunately, I didn't hear you properly,” but I also factor in the concern that my colleagues and I have had about incidents or accidents involving our interpreters.

To what extent do we still rely on the hybrid format in connection with the interpreters? In my opinion, our needs have declined significantly.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Mr. Aubé, perhaps it would be better if you answered.

[Stéphan Aubé]

What we are seeing now is comparable to the pre-pandemic situation. During sitting weeks, 30% of members, on average, take part in meetings remotely, compared to 70% who attend in person.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Perfect.

[Stéphan Aubé]

These are the current averages.

However, we notice an increase in remote participation during recess weeks, that is to say when the House does not sit and the members are most likely in their riding offices.

As for witnesses, the percentage is still quite high. Right now, almost 70% of witnesses still take part in meetings remotely.

Those are essentially the figures we are seeing. Use of the hybrid format seems to be returning to what we saw before the pandemic.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Let us talk about interpreters and the labour shortage. Even if 70% of elected officials attend meetings in person, how could you maintain the interpretation services you now offer if there is a shortage of interpreters? If I understand correctly, some committees have not been able to meet because of a lack of interpreters. Is that right?

[Stéphan Aubé]

That happens sometimes. Although scheduling conflicts sometimes occur between some committees, the trend is downwards. At present, there are approximately 57 committee meetings per week, compared to 67 before the pandemic.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

So the hybrid format reduces work time and efficiency. Is that right? Just moments ago, my colleague next to me was able to get replaced, and we have had no problem holding this meeting.

What does the role of a member consist of outside the context of meetings, whether on-screen or in person? What are the benefits of meeting in the hallways, behind the scenes, where there is meaningful interaction? I'd love to hear your thoughts on this richness that face-to-face exchanges allow.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I will give you my personal opinion. It is not an official opinion. In my view, it is certain that, when we are here in person, passing each other in the hallways, eating together, or meeting in the evening or in our offices, we have an opportunity to get to know each other a little bit better as members and talk about things.

In a virtual meeting, once the camera is turned off, the discussion ends there, whereas it can continue when we are on site.

That is why, in my remarks, I said that it would be up to the committee to make good recommendations about the limits to our use of the hybrid model. In my view, determining when to use the hybrid model and when not to use it will be a very significant challenge for the committee, if in fact it decides to recommend keeping it. The decision will not be easy to make.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Madam Chair, since we can't have exchanges, I'd like to know if each of our witnesses could give their opinion on the effectiveness of the work and on incidents or accidents, whether related to interpreters or otherwise. They could add to our report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I think that's a good idea. Thank you, Ms. Gaudreau.

Ms. Blaney, you have six minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

As always, everything goes through the chair. I want to thank her for constantly reminding us about that.

I also want to thank the Speaker for dealing with it with such grace when he was cut off. I appreciate that tremendously.

I also want to add my thanks to everyone. Not only were we dealing with the reality of a pandemic and the personal issues we were facing with our own families, but we were also asking all the people here to figure out how to continue to run this government on all levels. I just want to say thank you. I appreciate how trying that must have been on top of everything else and how important it was that we got that work done. I appreciate that.

Through the chair, I understand there was an audio system performance review conducted over the summer that was commissioned by the House of Commons administration. Will that be able to be tabled with this committee so that we can review it?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

The work was done, and there were some questions on the methodology.

I'd feel more comfortable if Monsieur Aubé or Monsieur Patrice answered the question, either one; they've been very good and on top of this. There are some details in there that I'm sure they can give you on that.

[Stéphan Aubé]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

We did do a study this summer, Ms. Blaney, to actually characterize our systems and measure the performance, because there were discussions and doubt about whether our systems at present were actually meeting the ISO standards. The report demonstrated that we were meeting the ISO standards related to the audio quality within our systems.

Having said that, we're still in discussion with the translation bureau to actually validate and make them understand the test. We're meeting again with them this week on Friday. I'm having a meeting with them and the NRC. We're also organizing tests next week again to demonstrate the results that were provided this summer.

As far as making the report available is concerned, our preference right now is to keep the document to ourselves until the validation is done by all parties engaged. We did this in partnership with the translation bureau, and we want to make sure that everyone is comfortable with the results. Once that's done, I think the conclusions of this very technical report could be shared, but as a first step, we want to keep them. It's still a working document from our perspective, because it needs to be validated with our partners through the process that we put in place.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Okay. Thank you for that. I will say, though, that I expect that I'll be coming back to this, because we do need to have it before this study ends. If we're going to be making the most educated decisions, we need to have that happen.

I know that at the end of the day, the interpreters really paid a high price for transitioning. I think we all recognize that. We know the challenges that we are all facing and the limits that we have to our capacity right now largely because of the hard work of the interpreters.

What percentage of interpreters are freelancers right now? In that context, I want to also ask whether, when they are working for our House as freelancers, they have the capacity to file health and safety incident reports. I just want to make sure that when we're hearing about the health and safety incident reports, we're not just hearing from those who are not freelancers; we're hearing from all of the interpreters who are serving us.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Actually, on that one for precise numbers, I think the translation bureau is appearing later on this week and it would be an appropriate question to ask them. They keep better figures. It would be better if they gave them to you rather than us giving them. That would be the best place to get them.